I think every one missed the point due to my not being a bit more precise, and using a very strong word. I drafted that mail on my very small screen mail device which made clear thinking a bit harder :-(. I agree that the word the "öutrageous" was too strong a word and clearly doesn't apply to the registration fee alone as it is only a small portion of overall cost to attend IETF meetings. But when you take the cost of attending three IETF meetings (about $2500 * 3= $7500 per annum), the cost is quite high for an individual. So any reduction or rebate will be welcome for those who are not funded from big corporate accounts. So now let us focus on the core issues of how to raise more money for IETF meetings so individual fees don't have to be raised in the future: 1. I agree that IETF needs money to function, and operate as a free and effective society. I fully support that. I suggest let IETF institute a tiered corporate membership program like all other standards forums (organizations do pay huge fees for WAP forums and MPLS forums etc.). Let us have $20 K per year for organization with 200 plus employees, $10 K for 100 to 200 employees and $5000 for every body else (or whatver numbers you choose), but unaffliated individuals may still remain free or pay only a nominal fee. Let the big corporations who benefit most from the IETF derived standards bear their proprtionate share of the cost for running the show. I hope somebody can do a rough estimate how much money can be raised per year for this. 2. Yes, the registration fee is definitely cheap for a five day conference when compared to IETF/ACM conferences. But IETF/ACM conferences are attended mostly by academcians who don't make big money based on the outcome of those conferences. But corporations who send tens of employees to IETF meetings do make tons of money based on IETF standards, or acceptance of their version of stnadrds (case in point BGP/MPLS VPNs a VPN implementation proposal. Who benefitted most from this proposal being accepted by IETF? ). As far as I know, only a few people from small organizations attend all five days. It is only the big corporations who send hundreds of people in all sessions who are there all five days, and attend every session. Let the registration fee be designed for them to pay for their proportionate share. Either set a realistic cost of $1000 per person and use decreasing discount for each additional member or keep the fee same at $575 but use the incremantal addional for every additional member. Both schemes will generate additional revenue, and will ensure the coprporations that benefit most will pay their proportional cost for IETF meetings. I am for IETF to continue to be financial secure but still remain as an open society. I am only asking people to think how to best combine these two goals. Just think without being emotive. ==Bonney --- Marshall Rose <mrose@dbc.mtview.ca.us> wrote: > Joe - since you replied to my note rather than > bonney's, i am obliged > to reply. > > Unlike both of you, i am not expressing an opinion > on the fees. What i > am saying is that neither of you have any data. > Let's look at some > actual numbers, and we can then have a reasoned > discussion... > > /mtr > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/