On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 14:50 -0500, John Morris wrote: > On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 15:03 -0400, Kamil Paral wrote: > > > > > I have to say I agree with you. They create too much complexity (which will be broken by definition) to create a tiny simplification. This is an example of overkill. > > No. This BS has gone on long enough. Fedora is pretty much the only > major distro shipping GNOME3 anyway so at some point handwaving about > 'upstream' doesn't cut it. When does Fedora say that enough is enough? > > Besides, I haven't bothered to check but who wants to take bets that the > genius who submitted this broken idea has @redhat.com on the end of > their email address? This blame reflection game was old a year ago. > Most of these guys are all in the same cubefarm but Fedora users aren't > allowed to object because gnome is 'upstream' and RH doesn't listen, > GNOME has an explicit policy to ignore end users so who the heck is > responsible? > > So if the only choice for Fedora is to take GNOME from upstream 'as-is' > or to not take it then so be it. Personally I think the only reaction > left is a general call to simply remove GNOME as the default desktop > environment in Fedora and thus to reject any changes from the GNOMEs > that impact the new default. Can I get a second? This is still the QA list, and that's not how we change major features in Fedora. The people designing GNOME 3 are on the Fedora desktop@ list, or the upstream channels/lists. The fact that some of them work for Red Hat seems to be bandied about a lot, but I'm damned if I can figure out why it seems to be assumed to be so relevant. Red Hat pays a lot of F/OSS developers. That doesn't mean that any other RH employee can order them what to do with those F/OSS projects. That's not the F/OSS model and it's not how RH operates. RH hires F/OSS developers who have demonstrated their value to the F/OSS development process and gives them a paycheck to keep working on those projects. It does not direct development of those projects. This isn't some PR smokescreen or misdirection ploy, it's the unvarnished truth. I can't go tell Matthias and Owen and Ray and etc etc how to build GNOME. My manager can't tell their manager to tell them how to build GNOME. GNOME is an independent project with its own processes, in which some Red Hat staff take part. That doesn't mean Red Hat can dictate how that project works. If it became clear that Red Hat was dictating GNOME design decisions, then Red Hat staff would get their GNOME commit privileges cut off pretty rapidly, I suspect. That's really not how things work. If you want to get changes done to how GNOME is designed, you need to engage with GNOME. Whether the people you have to engage with happen to have @redhat.com in their email addresses or not is not terribly relevant: they are members of the GNOME project. If you want to propose a change in Fedora's default desktop, then you probably want to follow the feature process - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy - and propose it as a feature for Fedora 19. Then you can sit back and watch the flamewar. It'll be purty. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
