Re: Fedora Marketing Digest, Vol 159, Issue 4

Jeremy Roe <jeremysroe@xxxxxxxxx> · Thu, 21 Sep 2017 02:15:08 +0000 (UTC)

I'll just a humble volunteer but I have career experience planning, developing, and writing marketing communications plans for software projects. May I be of assistance in respect of the authoritative plan, written down, which has been suggested?

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Jeremy S. Roe
jeremysroe@xxxxxxxxx
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   On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 21:11, marketing-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Do we want to promote Fedora as "Linux"? How *do* we want people to find us?
      (Eduard Lucena)
   2. Re: Do we want to promote Fedora as "Linux"? How *do* we want people to find us?
      (Paul W. Frields)
   3. Re: Do we want to promote Fedora as "Linux"? How *do* we want people to find us?
      (Matthew Miller)
   4. Re: Do we want to promote Fedora as "Linux"? How *do* we want people to find us?
      (charles profitt)

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 13:30:32 -0300
From: Eduard Lucena <eduardlucena@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [marketing] Re: Do we want to promote Fedora as "Linux"? How
    *do* we want people to find us?
To: Fedora Marketing mailing list <marketing@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
    <CAJnHaQcc6HeKh_8K=gB+260XcGe2bZjOb7kxh9Bn2h0JEsG6Ow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Hi team,

I see several things going on here.

1. Targeted oriented campaigns:
We already have 2 tickets to talk/discuss this [1][2]. We had feedback for
some weeks but now both are kind of dead. People looks like just discuss
things when Matt write an email, not in the tickets or in the meetings.

2. Interest:
I don't want to sound like if I'm complaining but this is an example:
> This thread is the first time I heard of the Python Classroom Lab. It
sounds like an awesome project.
Of how people inside the project is not reading neither the Talking Point
nor the annoucements, so: What can we wait outside the project? (please,
don't take this like an attack, it's just quotting an interesting thing
that we supose to highlight, even when there is an article in the magazine
for it [3])
If we really want to push things better in the marketing strategies and in
the team in general a good idea is to concrete ideas, attend meetings and
read/create/use the ticketing system.

3. Involvement:
We don't have an specific topic in the marketing strategies, we are focused
in finishing the Talking Points that supose to help people to promote the
use of the distro. Please read this carefully "promote the use of the
distro". I never felt an urgent desire to promote developing environments,
or specific topics; we just cover the changes and the bleeding/leading tech
included in each release. One of the more important things about why this
is happening, IMHO, is because there isn't a lot of people doing Marketing.
The Marketing team have a lot of things, like Social Networks presence,
with Twitter, Facebook, the Magazine and Telegram, also we supose to have
contact with media (news blogs or anything here), that I have never seen.
Normally you can see the news sites copying from the ML or the release
announcements. I'm probably wrong on this, but really if these contacts
exists are not reflected in ML or anywhere (wiki page about media contacts
is outdated).
I wasn't here when the strategy about "Fedora <3 Python" came out or when
it was planned, but that was the last strategy really planned.

4. Topics:
We need to define what we want to do and call people to help in each
specific topic. For example, to do this:
> I'd love for each Edition WG and Spin/Lab SIG to come up with search
terms that reflect these goals
But honestly, even for collecting the Talking Points, reach each team is
really a pain. Nobody answer anything, we normally intersect teams in their
meetings and some of them are responsives, others aren't. So, ideally we
need to recruit people to help in marketing that works in each WG/SIG.
Also, if we are going to extend our topics to promote Fedora in the "target
audiences" we need people that can write about each topic, with technical
knowledge. I mean, it isn't like just say: "we want to promote Fedora as a
great distro for developing in python", we need people that can help with
writting about how to setup a python environment, what tools are included
in Fedora for that, how is the Python Classroom Lab ready to work with
python, that is not in the Workstation edition; and these kind of questions
need to be answered for each topic that we can come out.

Conclusions:
If we really want to help to promote Fedora for a specific topic, we need
to involve people that can really talk about that topic. It won't be to
just come up with the idea of make Fedora promoted like the best for do X o
Y. I'm really agree with the idea of promote Fedora in different
environments, like developers, media producers, different desktops, and all
the targets we can come up with, but we need the help of the poeple that is
using Fedora in those environments.

Br,

[1] https://pagure.io/fedora-marketing/issue/245
[2] https://pagure.io/fedora-marketing/issue/248
[3] https://fedoramagazine.org/introducing-python-classroom-lab/

--=20
Eduard Lucena
M=C3=B3vil: +56975687314
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Ambassador Latam

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Hi team,</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I see several things going o=
n here.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
">1. Targeted oriented campaigns:</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">We alread=
y have 2 tickets to talk/discuss this [1][2]. We had feedback for some week=
s but now both are kind of dead. People looks like just discuss things when=
 Matt write an email, not in the tickets or in the meetings.</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">2. Interest:<br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I don't want to sound like if I'm comp=
laining but this is an example:</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">&gt; This t=
hread is the first time I heard of the Python Classroom Lab. It sounds like=
 an awesome project.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Of how people inside t=
he project is not reading neither the Talking Point nor the annoucements, s=
o: What can we wait outside the project? (please, don't take this like =
an attack, it's just quotting an interesting thing that we supose to hi=
ghlight, even when there is an article in the magazine for it [3])<br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra">If we really want to push things better in the =
marketing strategies and in the team in general a good idea is to concrete =
ideas, attend meetings and read/create/use the ticketing system.</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">3. Involvement:<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">We don't have an specific topic in the =
marketing strategies, we are focused in finishing the Talking Points that s=
upose to help people to promote the use of the distro. Please read this car=
efully &quot;promote the use of the distro&quot;. I never felt an urgent de=
sire to promote developing environments, or specific topics; we just cover =
the changes and the bleeding/leading tech included in each release. One of =
the more important things about why this is happening, IMHO, is because the=
re isn't a lot of people doing Marketing. The Marketing team have a lot=
 of things, like Social Networks presence, with Twitter, Facebook, the Maga=
zine and Telegram, also we supose to have contact with media (news blogs or=
 anything here), that I have never seen. Normally you can see the news site=
s copying from the ML or the release announcements. I'm probably wrong =
on this, but really if these contacts exists are not reflected in ML or any=
where (wiki page about media contacts is outdated).</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra">I wasn't here when the strategy about &quot;Fedora &lt;3 Pytho=
n&quot; came out or when it was planned, but that was the last strategy rea=
lly planned.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
extra">4. Topics:</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">We need to define what we=
 want to do and call people to help in each specific topic. For example, to=
 do this:</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">&gt; I'd love for each Editio=
n WG and Spin/Lab SIG to come up with search terms that reflect these goals=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">But honestly, even for collecting the Talk=
ing Points, reach each team is really a pain. Nobody answer anything, we no=
rmally intersect teams in their meetings and some of them are responsives, =
others aren't. So, ideally we need to recruit people to help in marketi=
ng that works in each WG/SIG. Also, if we are going to extend our topics to=
 promote Fedora in the &quot;target audiences&quot; we need people that can=
 write about each topic, with technical knowledge. I mean, it isn't lik=
e just say: &quot;we want to promote Fedora as a great distro for developin=
g in python&quot;, we need people that can help with writting about how to =
setup a python environment, what tools are included in Fedora for that, how=
 is the Python Classroom Lab ready to work with python, that is not in the =
Workstation edition; and these kind of questions need to be answered for ea=
ch topic that we can come out.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra">Conclusions:</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">If we=
 really want to help to promote Fedora for a specific topic, we need to inv=
olve people that can really talk about that topic. It won't be to just =
come up with the idea of make Fedora promoted like the best for do X o Y. I=
'm really agree with the idea of promote Fedora in different environmen=
ts, like developers, media producers, different desktops, and all the targe=
ts we can come up with, but we need the help of the poeple that is using Fe=
dora in those environments.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra">Br,</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra">[1] <a href="" href="https://pagure.io/fedora-marketing/issue=" target="_blank">https://pagure.io/fedora-marketing/issue=
/245">https://pagure.io/fedora-marketing/issue/245</a></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra">[2] <a href="" href="https://pagure.io/fedora-marketing/issue/248" target="_blank">https://pagure.io/fedora-marketing/issue/248">ht=
tps://pagure.io/fedora-marketing/issue/248</a></div><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra">[3] <a href="" href="https://fedoramagazine.org/introducing-python-classroom-=" target="_blank">https://fedoramagazine.org/introducing-python-classroom-=
lab/">https://fedoramagazine.org/introducing-python-classroom-lab/</a><br c=
lear=3D"all"></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Eduard Lucena<br>M=C3=B3vil: +56975687314<br>GNU/=
Linux User #589060<br>Ubuntu User #8749<br></div><div>Fedora Ambassador Lat=
am<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 12:31:48 -0400
From: "Paul W. Frields" <stickster@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [marketing] Re: Do we want to promote Fedora as "Linux"? How
    *do* we want people to find us?
To: council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
    marketing@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20170920163148.GB5304@raquel-eth>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 11:52:39PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> 
> 
> > Well, the marketing strategy is intended 
> > to be audience-centric, but
> > structured around the editions as a way 
> > of organizing the project.
> > That's somewhat different from whether > the website is audience or
> > edition-centric.
> 
> "Marketing strategy" sounds more formal and organized than what I am
> familiar with and aware of. Are there any pointers to specifics on
> this, outside of the website efforts? I am interested because a
> formalized strategy would help us make design decisions about
> collateral / materials we're asked to create on the design team.

Agreed, an overarching, authoritative strategy, written down and
maintained, would help a lot for these types of discussions and
supporting work.

> > Search engine position is an easy number to get and compare over time,
> > but is there convincing evidence that it's meaningful? Is it meaningful
> > in either of these senses?:
> > 
> > 1 - Good position in rankings will help make $THING more popular
> > 2 - Good position in rankings reflects popularity of $THING
> 
> > I think #2 is _probably_ true. And #1 is 
> > probably true if advertising
> > works at all, which it seems to. 
> 
> A bunch of data I referenced was snipped wrt specific terms and
> results I saw; I am wondering if you can corroborate them w the tool
> you have?
> 
> I dont understand how #2 can be true if the #1 ranked dev desktop by
> far and #2 ranked desktop by quite a lot arent reflected in the
> results at all. How can it reflect whats going on when 75% of the
> dev desktop base (win 50 + os x 25) isnt reflected?
> 
> Of course advertising works, but SEO isnt advertising. None of this
> works without data. You need data to drive SEO. You need information
> about the audience youre targeting to even know what you're
> optimizing for so it's relevant and not unnaturally forced into your
> content. Do we have these marketing data resources?
> 
> I think cleaning up the metadata on our site and keeping content
> fresh etc - these are good things. There's a good oppty here to
> clean things up, make our message clearer, update things and maybe
> even institute better processes / initiatives for keeping them
> fresh. However, lacing our site with keywords and stuffing our page
> titles with buzzwords to vy for the attention of a bot whose
> algorithm changes daily is not ok. The core function of the website
> is to communicate a readable message to humans, right? Let's not
> compromise the consistent and coherent voice we've established....

There are already quite a few searchable bits in the source behind the
page.  We could of course work with those without affecting the
content.  But doing so without clearly supporting a coherent strategy
probably isn't going to have a huge effect on Fedora's popularity.

I also don't think anyone's saying the website is deficient -- IMHO
it's the best it's been in a *long* time.  I'm all for improving or
reworking the content to be fresh, timely, and high value.  It needn't
be an artificial function of trying to "game" SEO.  Maybe we should
start with the authoritative written strategy mentioned above.

-- 
Paul W. Frields                                http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://redhat.com/   -  -  -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
    The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:51:26 -0400
From: Matthew Miller <mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [marketing] Re: Do we want to promote Fedora as "Linux"? How
    *do* we want people to find us?
To: Fedora Marketing mailing list <marketing@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20170920185126.GA17495@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 01:30:32PM -0300, Eduard Lucena wrote:
> 1. Targeted oriented campaigns:
> We already have 2 tickets to talk/discuss this [1][2]. We had feedback for
> some weeks but now both are kind of dead. People looks like just discuss
> things when Matt write an email, not in the tickets or in the meetings.

Lesson learned: write more email. :)

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Fedora Project Leader

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 21:09:43 -0400
From: charles profitt <fedora@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [marketing] Re: Do we want to promote Fedora as "Linux"? How
    *do* we want people to find us?
To: marketing@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1505956183.2224.2.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Wed, 2017-09-20 at 12:31 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 11:52:39PM -0400, M=C3=A1ir=C3=ADn Duffy wrote:

<snip>
>=20
> Agreed, an overarching, authoritative strategy, written down and
> maintained, would help a lot for these types of discussions and
> supporting work.
>=20

<snip>

>=20
> There are already quite a few searchable bits in the source behind
> the page.  We could of course work with those without affecting the
> content.  But doing so without clearly supporting a coherent strategy
> probably isn't going to have a huge effect on Fedora's popularity.
>=20
> I also don't think anyone's saying the website is deficient -- IMHO
> it's the best it's been in a *long* time.  I'm all for improving or
> reworking the content to be fresh, timely, and high value.  It
> needn't be an artificial function of trying to "game" SEO.  Maybe we
> should start with the authoritative written strategy mentioned above.

I just wanted to put my .02 in that this discussion sounds like a
valuable one. I am glad to see everyone trying to find a happy balance
between 'get it done' and 'red tape rules', but at the same time
seeking structure for the sake of guiding decisions and enabling
volunteers to 'do stuff'.

~ Charles
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