> On Mon, 2008-09-08 at 11:31 -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: >> > On Mon, 2008-09-08 at 10:27 -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: >> >> > A few weeks back the releng team made a schedule adjustment, to >> make >> >> up >> >> > for lost rawhide time due to the intrusion. When we made that >> >> schedule >> >> > adjustment, we had assumed having a working rawhide within days of >> >> that >> >> > meeting, giving us a week or so worth of working rawhide to shake >> out >> >> > any pre-beta bugs we wanted to. >> >> > >> >> > Unfortunately, while we were able to /attempt/ rawhide creation as >> >> > scheduled, a series of software bugs and bad personnel timing has >> >> > prevented those attempts from producing usable rawhide images until >> >> > basically today (and today's are pretty shaky from what I hear). >> This >> >> > is not so good, as without an installable rawhide, we don't get a >> good >> >> > idea as to how the installer is working, and we miss out on a lot >> of >> >> > 'initial install' testing of software on people's systems. We get >> a >> >> lot >> >> > of "I upgraded from foo" type testing, which definitely has it's >> >> value, >> >> > but I feel we're missing a pretty key part of the rawhide >> experience. >> >> > >> >> > The Beta freeze is set for Tomorrow. That means the content that >> >> would >> >> > show up in tomorrow's rawhide would also be the content we use as >> the >> >> > basis of Beta. Any changes after that would have to be ran through >> >> the >> >> > releng/qa teams to be approved. >> >> > >> >> > Given the "fun" we had with Alpha, I really feel that it would be >> >> > prudent to spend a few more unfrozen days with a hopefully >> continually >> >> > working rawhide installer so that we can do some of that last >> minute >> >> > testing of what's wrong before we freeze, and hopefully have a >> shorter >> >> > and more productive freeze period. But this is just my opinion, >> and >> >> > thus I'm putting this out there for discussion. >> >> > >> >> > Feature owners in particular, I'm interested in your opinions as to >> if >> >> > you need a few more days to see what shape your features are in >> before >> >> > we freeze. Ideally the week before a freeze would have been a slow >> >> down >> >> > period, where large changes were avoided and bugfixing was focused >> on >> >> so >> >> > that the Beta was useful. I feel like we didn't give you a chance >> to >> >> do >> >> > this and it'll still feel like crash landing planes on the carrier >> >> deck >> >> > when it come to features in Beta. >> >> > >> >> > I'm interested in what the rest of you think as well, both package >> >> > owners and testers alike. If you think our schedule time would be >> >> > better spent fixing and verifying things pre-freeze and adding an >> >> extra >> >> > week to the schedule, or just freeze as things are, and potentially >> >> slip >> >> > a week during the freeze to make everything usable for the Beta (or >> >> the >> >> > third option, things are fine as they are, just freeze and release >> as >> >> > scheduled and stop being so paranoid). >> >> > >> >> > What say you? >> >> >> >> Wait a bit, maybe slip the release a week if you have to. Better >> >> slippage >> >> than suckage, IMHO. After the intrusion, I think users will >> understand. >> > >> > slipping the release a week gets complicated as we get dangerously >> close >> > to thanksgiving in the US which takes a huge number of contributors >> out >> > of the world. >> >> Are you suggesting that after a large meal containing high quantities of >> starch, tryptophan, and alcohol, I might not be at my best? >> >> For shame. ;) > > No, I'm saying most of us don't want to work through that weekend. > > I know I don't. :) Agreed and seconded. <Sigh> Would have made for some memorable cvs commit messages, though. I think we could easily make up the time between F10 and F11 without slipping F11, though. Especially if there isn't another intrusion. We just might have a really shaky alpha. So what? It's an alpha. > -sv > > -- novus ordo absurdum -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
