On Wed, 2007-11-14 at 23:18 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> On 14.11.2007 19:34, Hans de Goede wrote:
> > Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> >> And 1108 open reviews in total (including lots of merge reviews (¹))
> > <snip>
> >> I think we have a problem here. I'm actually wondering what FESCo (and
> >> the Board) thinks about that.
> > Thanks for this Thorsten, I think we as a community needed this kick in the
> > behind, I say we as a community, because I think its unfair to solely blame
> > FESCo, as you write further down your mail, there is currently little community
> > involvement in the governing of Fedora, no contributers other the the members
> > attending FESCo meetings, etc.
>
> Well, the involvement from non-FESCo members in meetings was a lot
> better (but still far from perfect) a year ago afaics.
Right, and there are several reasons why it is so.
Primary reason is: FPC has lost importance.
- The fundamental problems have been resolved. Most issues popping up
these days either are exotic special cases, corner-cases or attempts on
over-engineering details ("implementing bureaucracy").
- FPC decisions are being ignored by packagers.
Also, thanks to ACLs and Fedora policies, FPC has no means to enforce
its decisions, even in cases where things are non-arguably wrong, there
is no means to intervene/enforce the guidelines.
- Being a member of FPC is not a pleasant task.
You are "sitting between all chairs", being shot at from all sides.
> I actually hit the point many months ago where said "okay, I tried to do
> lots of stuff without being in FESCo or the Board; but it is way to hard
> and I'm wasting my time here". Main reason for that: I posted proposals
> to the list, got comments and integrated them into my proposal; some
> FESCo members didn't participate in the list discussions but in the
> meeting to vote on the porposal those suddenly said "I don't like part
> X". So I went back to the drawing board, list discsusion to hear in the
> next FESCo meeting just another FESCo member say "I don't like part Y".
Very nicely put.
It corresponds to why I have become fatalistic and widely reduced my
involvement into Fedora: "THEM are wanting it, THEM are pushing us
volunteers around".
But that's a general Fedora issue and not actually related to FPC.
> I went thought that loop multiple times and that was just frustrating,
> so I'm ATM a bit unwilling to do more stuff in Fedora-government land
> again before this isn't getting fixed.
>
> With getting fixed I'm not sure how to get that fixed exactly; maybe
> work work more towards a Meritocracy-like way and lessen the influence
> of the committees we have?
What are you aiming at? FPC already is permanently being ignored, it's
influence already is weak.
Ralf
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