On Mon, Apr 08, 2024 at 12:22:35AM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > I've noticed a trend in proposed changes in the way Fedora works. > > I am fed up of this salami tactic as well. When we complain about the new > stuff, we invariably get told "don't worry, you don't have to use it, it's > all optional", but the plan is always to make it mandatory later. See also > 2FA that they are now trying to force on us, taking as an excuse an incident > that was demonstrably NOT stopped by 2FA. > > > They start off as as things packagers will not have to use if they do > > not want to and, over time, become default/forced (Matrix vs IRC, > > To be fair, part of the blame there is to be put on Libera.Chat that > unilaterally turned off their Matrix bridge. (Yes, they did give Matrix some > time to address the demands they had, but when Matrix told them it was not > feasible in such a short time frame, they just first suspended, then > permanently blocked the Matrix bridge.) But, and here is where I blame > Fedora, instead of just letting the chans on Libera.Chat die and moving > everything to Matrix, they should have moved the IRC chans to a network with > a working Matrix bridge, such as OFTC (or pretty much anything other than > Libera.Chat – I guess even Freenode under its new owners might be an > option), then we could still be happily using both technologies > interoperably. Instead, we get told to just use Matrix and shut up, which I > do not consider acceptable. > > > Discourse, ...). > > There too, I do not see why some discussions are now being directed to > Discourse instead of the mailing list. And it is not even working. Most of > the pertinent feedback for new Changes still comes on this list, not on > Discourse. The developers use this list, Discourse is only for users who do > not know how to use a mailing list. The massive & central problem with discourse (and it's amazing that it still has not been fixed) is that there's no way to reliably get it to send me an email when there's a new topic, or even when there's a new message on an existing topic. As a result it's completely useless and invisible to me. Rich. > > Perhaps it's time to discuss imposing financial and/or legal penalties > > when the opt-in nature of the change goes away. > > Who would impose those? And from whom to whom would the money flow? I do not > think this can work. > > Kevin Kofler > -- > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com virt-builder quickly builds VMs from scratch http://libguestfs.org/virt-builder.1.html -- _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
