Re: LibreOffice packages

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On Mon, Jun 5 2023 at 01:37:24 PM -0400, Stephen Smoogen <ssmoogen@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

1. What is a flatpak and what does it mean to have an application in it? Is it everything bundled in it or does it use layers?

Two layers:

* Runtime (base platform, responsibility of runtime maintainers)
* Application (including bundled dependencies not present in the runtime)

It's a compromise between traditional distribution-style dynamic linking for the most common dependencies (the runtime), plus bundling for the less-common dependencies the application needs that are not present in the runtime.

2. So there are these 'SDKs' that people mention? What is in them? How are they built? How are they updated? Who maintains them and how can we 'verify' in the 'trust and verify' method (aka source code, build flags, build system).

Confusingly, SDK has two meanings.

First, the SDK is an alternate version of the runtime intended for developers. The runtime normally used by users is the "platform" runtime and the runtime for developers is the SDK. The SDK adds developer tools like gdb, valgrind, etc. For example, GNOME applications usually run against the org.gnome.Platform runtimes, but you might need to tell them to use org.gnome.Sdk instead if you need to debug something.

Second, there is freedesktop-sdk, which is the name of the project that produces the base runtime that is the de facto default runtime that most Flatpak applications use. Both the GNOME and KDE runtimes are based on freedesktop-sdk. (The Fedora runtime is a notable exception in that it is mostly independent of freedesktop-sdk, with everything built from Fedora RPMs instead.)

The runtimes are maintained in places like [1] and [2] and [3] and [4] by friendly neighborhood open source people, so it's easy to check what they contain. They are built in different ways. [1] and [2] are built using Buildstream. [3] is built using flatpak-builder. [4] is built using modulemd (but that will have to change due to failure of Fedora modularity). So these are three quite different ways of building runtimes.

I'm familiar with the Buildstream runtimes. For source code, there are references to tarballs or git repos in each Buildstream element. For build flags, the freedesktop and GNOME runtimes use build flags based on Fedora's build flags [5] with some adjustments (there are no GCC specs, GCC is configured a bit differently than ours). As far as verification, I guess you want to look at build logs? Unfortunately I'm not smart enough to do this reliably anymore, as Buildstream likes to reuse cached builds and I don't know how to see logs for these builds. :( It's a problem. But for at least freedesktop-sdk and GNOME, you can see *some* build logs by looking at the CI artifacts.

[1] https://gitlab.com/freedesktop-sdk/freedesktop-sdk
[2] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-build-meta
[3] https://invent.kde.org/packaging/flatpak-kde-runtime
[4] https://src.fedoraproject.org/flatpaks/flatpak-runtime/
[5] https://gitlab.com/freedesktop-sdk/freedesktop-sdk/-/blob/master/include/flags.yml

I think a FAQ around these and others would probably cut down a lot of the uncertainty and doubt people feel.

Probably, but I'm not going to volunteer to help with that. :) There is [6], but it's pretty basic and doesn't answer your questions.

[6] https://flatpak.org/faq/

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