On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 01:39:00PM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > > > Stephen Smoogen wrote: > >> So let us say it is voted on and the answer is keep the mailing lists. > >> What are the next steps to fixing the mail system which is held together > >> by duct-tape and bailing wire? > > [etc.] > > > > Thanks for confirming that the decision was actually already made > > elsewhere and that this whole RFC thread is just a farce. Looks like "I > > propose" in the original post should really read as "I dictate". I... don't understand how you reached that conclusion. My current understanding is: * Matthew posted about a number of issues / concerns with mailing lists. These concerns are completely 100% unrelated to our current list infrastructure. If we had the very latest mailman3 from upstream running smoothly... it would still be a mailing list and it would really have almost all of the same concerns. I completely understand where smooge is coming from here. Am I frustrated at the current state of our mailing list infrastructre? Oh so very much. Do I hope we can make it better? Oh so very much. Are mailing lists going to 'go away' soon? NO. There's a number of things we use lists for that will be difficult to move over to discussion, and that leads me to... * Matthew said he was going to propose that FESCo decide if moving Changes discussion to discuss was something they wanted to do. I can't see how you think thats been decided? Much less turning off mailing lists. I personally am willing to learn and try it... but I don't even have a good sense where the rest of FESCo is on this. And this is just one part of devel discussions. Anyhow, I 100% disagree with you that this is 'a farce'. I think it's been useful, I think we have gotten: * More information on interacting with discussion via email and if it will meet the needs of existing devel folks. * A sense of people who will probibly not want to participate at all, even via an email interface. * Some more use cases mailing lists provide that we should consider a way to provide if we move more things to discussion (example, I think some kind of better/easier public archive for drive by contributors and those that need to look back in history would be good) * Some suggestions for improvements we can ask discourse folks to make to make more people happy. The next steps here would be for Matthew to ask fesco about moving changes discussions over to discuss and them to vote/consider that. After that, I hope we can fix some of the issues identified here before we do anything further to move more discussions over there. Does this mean that someday we might turn off mailing lists? Sure, it could, but it could also mean things don't work out on discussion and things never fully move to it, or move, but then move back. I'll note that we just released Fedora 38... and the users mailing list has had a increase in posts. It had like 60-70 in the last week. The askfedora category in discussion had more than that overnight last night. It's pretty dramatic. Granted this could be due to us advertising that as the way to get help, and users asking questions aren't the same as developers, but still... It's a LOT more interaction. Anyhow, I'll stop. kevin
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