On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 at 18:47, Matthew Miller <mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 05:39:51PM -0400, Stephen Smoogen wrote:
> I hate to ask this but could you give a more summarized version of this
> email? I realize you had a lot of reasoning you wanted to cover on the
> why's but I frankly got lost several times. That makes it really hard not
> to respond in ways which are overly emotional and not helpful. Anything I
> wrote would start with me trying to summarize what was written but failing
> to do so, or I would end up trying to pick apart different paragraphs in
> non-helpful ways.
Sure. I realize it is quite long.
I am proposing that over the course of 2023, starting with the Changes
process, we move Fedora development conversations from this mailing list to
the Discourse-based Fedora Discussion.
Many Fedora folks, new and old, can't keep with this list. The number of
participants is down over time (even as the number of threads has risen).
Many teams are moving away from devel list anyway -- using various scattered
bug trackers as their effective "forum".
Discourse gives us better tools for the conversations we need to have as a
project. I know it takes some getting used to, but I strongly believe it
will be worth it.
Devel list actually covers a lot of different topics. Discourse lets us
categorize those better while still keeping it all together.
The first thing I suggest moving is discussion around proposed Changes. This
is a FESCo decision. The rest I won't duplicate here.
Thank you. I have a better understanding of where you are coming from, and what this meant to do. I don't like the solution, but I know all too well that the current mailman3 solution works on a wing and a prayer. It has been running an EOL version of the software for a long time and there are not enough infrastructure resources to do all the things that are needed for an upgrade AND keep builds going. I also understand that the general community of the lists has shrunk over the last 10 years with it becoming more and more 'the same old people complaining about the same old things'.
That said, I don't think I will be greatly active after the move. I have tried Discourse for a year, but have found it to be like every forum and BBS I have tried for the last 30 years.. frustrating and needy. I get tired and angry after 30 minutes and my replies start becoming the problem you don't want. [I realize this is how many people feel about email which causes them to drop out there.] If that lack of engagement requires me to orphan packages or other items, I completely understand.
Stephen Smoogen, Red Hat Automotive
Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle. -- Ian MacClaren_______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
