Hi, On 10/5/22 19:59, Christopher Klooz wrote: > > On 05/10/2022 18:39, Christopher Klooz wrote: >> On 05/10/2022 17:33, Chris Murphy wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2022, at 11:16 AM, Christopher Klooz wrote: >>> >>>> However, on ask.fp, a user mentioned that the grub menu is no longer >>>> enabled by default on single boot systems so that changing the kernel is >>>> no longer easily possible, and put forward >>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HiddenGrubMenu as evidence for >>>> this argument. Yet, the article indicates that the argument is not fully >>>> correct and even with single boot installations, SHIFT can be used to >>>> get into the grub menu. >>> I think it's F8 or SHIFT. F8 doesn't work on many laptops I've found, because it's reserved by UEFI firmware for one of its menus. And SHIFT has never worked. Maybe Esc or TAB? Holding left shift is the easiest method, but with firmware being firmware does not work on all systems. What does always work is ESC or F8, Fedora's grub supports both to show the menu. On some systems one of those key get intercepted by the firmware which is why there are 2 choices. >>> Given this inconsistency, I have a mixed opinion of the hidden GRUB menu. >>> >>> >> Me, too. Especially as it makes support more problematic for unexperiened users. It is easy to say that people should push another kernel when they see the grub menu. They see text, and I can tell them which text to choose. But with unexperiened users, telling when to push tab/esc/shift/F8 can already need to start an elaboration of what "boot" means and when this happens and so on. Such elaborations are already annoying for them (and for the supporters). The menu automatically unhides after a failed boot. Just blindly doing ctrl + alt + f4 followed by ctrl + alt + delete; or just power-cycling the machine counts as a failed boot. We have spend a lot of time on creating a smooth boot experience without any menus filled with "techno babble" which scare novice users. Lets avoid regressing on this. If anything what we need is to: 1. Detect we are running not the latest kernel 2. Pop up a dialog that 1. is true and ask the user if there were issues with the latest kernel and if yes if they want to pin the currently running kernel for say the next month ? Regards, Hans _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
