On 05/10/2022 18:39, Christopher Klooz wrote:
On 05/10/2022 17:33, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Wed, Oct 5, 2022, at 11:16 AM, Christopher Klooz wrote:
However, on ask.fp, a user mentioned that the grub menu is no longer
enabled by default on single boot systems so that changing the
kernel is
no longer easily possible, and put forward
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HiddenGrubMenu as evidence for
this argument. Yet, the article indicates that the argument is not
fully
correct and even with single boot installations, SHIFT can be used to
get into the grub menu.
I think it's F8 or SHIFT. F8 doesn't work on many laptops I've found,
because it's reserved by UEFI firmware for one of its menus. And
SHIFT has never worked. Maybe Esc or TAB?
Given this inconsistency, I have a mixed opinion of the hidden GRUB
menu.
Me, too. Especially as it makes support more problematic for
unexperiened users. It is easy to say that people should push another
kernel when they see the grub menu. They see text, and I can tell them
which text to choose. But with unexperiened users, telling when to
push tab/esc/shift/F8 can already need to start an elaboration of what
"boot" means and when this happens and so on. Such elaborations are
already annoying for them (and for the supporters).
I know that many unexperienced users don't like if they have to work
in text mode, or if they have to work with these texts. But the
appearance of a grub menu that automatically makes the choice for them
is something I have never heard a complaint about. Also, people don't
like if they are urged to seek help (which they have to because
unexperiened users will often not formulate search queries that makes
them end up on helpful/related documentation). If they see the menu,
many find out themselves what this is and for what they can use it,
supporting their independence (others simply ignore it).
Maybe it makes sense to revert the hiding of the menu?
In any case, the information we provide should be updated to be
consistent. F8/SHIFT/ESC/TAB? I cannot verify which is currently the
correct button as I do not experience that behavior. However, it is
interesting that I have this behavior not on my single-boot systems.
Maybe further inconsistency can get introduced by firmware (another
complication that could make it more complicated for users - and
supporters obviously as well).
I cannot verify Jeff's comment (this one:
https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/does-the-grub-menu-appear-by-default-on-single-boot-workstation-installations/27270/8
), but he says that the hiding of the grub menu was already reverted for
new installations in one of the recent releases.
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