On Sun, 26 Sept 2021 at 16:35, Christopher <ctubbsii@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > I think part of the problem is that Java is too big. There are too > many libraries to fit into a single community. I think there's > probably willing volunteers to maintain some libraries and application > packages, but these are not necessarily the same people willing to do > all the work of maintaining OpenJDK packages or the whole Eclipse > stack. > > When modularity took out the whole Java stack, it did a lot of lasting > damage that is going to be hard to recover from. In order for the vast > majority of Java packagers to return, there needs to be a reliable I am going to disagree here greatly. The Java stack was in exactly the same mode it is in now before then. There was 1 person 'maintaining' hundreds of packages for a long time. There were other 'maintainers' listed but they were not around or ignoring things from burnout. People had brought this up year after year and all that would happen is everyone would say "we can't ever let things down" and pitch in to fix things (or make the 1 person who was over-committed feel guilty for asking to lighten the load). Then when the defacto Java maintainer moved stuff into modules to make his life easier.. there was a 'well we can find new people to do this instead' and various initiatives were tried to make it. Those have all failed because 1. Java and Fedora have a long back history of ugly fighting which makes it hard for 'older' Java people want to work with Fedora. Like old feuds, there are landmines which flare up fights no one remembers exactly but they come up. 2. That ugly fighting is sort of written into the packaging guidelines because it is a long 'compromise' between how Java wants packages done and how Fedora wants it done. This makes it hard for 'new' Java people because they are whiplashed between different world views. And vice versa, if you aren't a Java person and try to make it fix a Java package it can be a brain hurt as you try to do things like in other packages and it all fails. 3. Most Fedora consumers just want the tools to work and pile onto the smaller pool of developers about 'why is X always broken?' This has caused continual burnout when new teams came up. It was also what was burning out the previous people. Basically Java has been 'broken' for as long as I have been part of Fedora. The 'good' times are usually just after the last time Java was going to be pulled out in the next release, and finally everyone drops the things they really care for and works on it. Then everyone goes back to their real pleasures and it falls apart again. Later, rinse, repeat. -- Stephen J Smoogen. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Flame wars in sci.astro.orion. I have seen SPAM filters overload because of Godwin's Law. All those moments will be lost in time... like posts on a BBS... time to shutdown -h now. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
