I think part of the problem is that Java is too big. There are too many libraries to fit into a single community. I think there's probably willing volunteers to maintain some libraries and application packages, but these are not necessarily the same people willing to do all the work of maintaining OpenJDK packages or the whole Eclipse stack. When modularity took out the whole Java stack, it did a lot of lasting damage that is going to be hard to recover from. In order for the vast majority of Java packagers to return, there needs to be a reliable base. I'm thinking OpenJDK (which I think is reliably maintained right now) and XMvn. Java packagers who might be willing to support a lot of the rest of the libraries (guava, commons-*, etc.) need to be able to rely on those core components being stable first. Then, when that trust is restored, I'm sure end-user applications will trickle in. Right now, I'm not sure there's adequate expertise to reestablish trust in the Java core tools for Java packagers to start coming back. One problem is that instead of thinking about the state of Java packaging as 3 separate layers, core-libraries-applications, and having only a single massive Java maintenance SIG, probably leaves a lot of end-user/application packagers like myself just lurking. There's little I can do to help with the vast majority of Java packages. And, there's little interest for me doing so, because I'm still waiting to see if the Java core and some of the libraries can make a comeback and be stable enough to rely on to start packaging my applications again. Right now, the whole stack seems unreliable, and it's a bit overwhelming for the casual volunteer, like me. Maybe this applies to other packagers as well? On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 3:20 PM Fabio Valentini <decathorpe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Good evening everybody, > > Not sure why it's me who's writing this message, but somebody needs to do it. > > Community maintenance of Java packages in Fedora is, for all intents > and purposes, dead. Mikolaj keeps a bare minimum of packages working > for the maven toolchain, but that's it. Fedora 35 will ship without > packages for the Eclipse IDE, and none of the Java applications I know > of are still in working order. While I had hoped that setting up a > "new" SIG and gathering members to shore up community maintenance of > the "extended core" Java stack, this effort fizzled out after mere > weeks. > > "He's dead, Jim." > > Now to the reason why I feel the need to beat a dead horse: I wonder > if the @java-maint-sig group should actually continue to exist (or > rather, be maintainer or bugzilla assignee for packages, because I > don't even know if FAS groups can be deleted). It seems that none of > the current members (I am no longer one of them) are active. Bugs, > including security issues with assigned CVE numbers, are collecting > dust. Packages get orphaned and retired one by one because they fail > to build or install. > > At this point, I'm still the only person with the password for the > SIG's bugzilla account and the only administrator of the private > mailing list - just because I wouldn't even know who to hand those > things over to (fedora-infra?). There's nobody left, nobody is reading > the mailing lists. Only tumbleweeds are here. > > Should the @java-maint-sig group be removed from any packages it is > still associated with? Should it be dissolved, and members be removed? > Should the remaining ruins that used to be packages be orphaned? > Retired? Buried? Forgotten? > > I don't know. > > Fabio > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
