On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 at 04:45, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel <devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On 16.06.2021 22:22, Matthew Miller wrote: > > Well, that's certainly A Position. I don't think it's anything nearly so > > absolute, though, and depends on what, who, how, why, and a host of other > > things. And "it can help us answer questions like this for our community" is > > a pretty non-evil "why". > > Built-in system level keylogger in one well-known operating system also > helps its developers? > 1. This conversation is not about other operating systems. 2. No one is talking about installing keyloggers or similar tools. I am saying the following from learning this the hard way. Bringing up extremes only causes people who are 'neutral' minded that you want to bring to your side to think the other side is probably more valid. If you want to talk about the evils of telemetry, stick to the case in point as limited as it is. The case being: adding such information to dnf reporting so that countme or similar centralized logging can survey the Fedora user audience better. The problems with this is that we are taking a fairly fuzzy data set and making it much easier to track individual users in ways seen as problematic by various laws and regulations. HTTPD logs already have the ip address, timestamp, requested information, and user-agent of the system. However it is very hard to say which of 10,000 systems behind a VPN was a particular request because the information just says x86_64 versus.. x86_64-v1 (v2 or v3). While not really pinpointing an individual it helps narrow down a search extremely. There are useful points in getting telemetry data of this sort. We could know better that we have a 60% population of v2 systems or that 90% of our arm systems are not system ready but raspberry pi's. That would allow for engineering to focus its resources on things which the consumers of the OS need versus what a 'vocal population' want. It is also a slippery slope that quickly adds more and more to the point where 'keyboard stroke telemetry' doesn't look like a big leap because you already have so many other ways to keep track of people, but you aren't sure if your new autospell or extra code key features are working well. > -- > Sincerely, > Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure -- Stephen J Smoogen. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Flame wars in sci.astro.orion. I have seen SPAM filters overload because of Godwin's Law. All those moments will be lost in time... like posts on BBS... time to reboot. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
