Hi, On 3/5/21 1:56 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 07:50:11PM +0100, Hans de Goede wrote: >>> I am not sure about this. What services are you seeing which are extraneous? I do see ps aux is going on miles and miles, but of the 218 processes I see from startup time on my workstation, I see 165 of them are kernel processes versus user space ones. Of the remaining 53, most of them seem hardware oriented (irqbalance, bluetooth, modemmanager, smartd, udisksd, upowerd, etc). Looking at the rest we have about 20 processes which seem outside of 'I don't want my laptop to work with modern hardware' and that would be abrt, atd/crond/cupsd, packagekitd, colord, and the sssd processes. So while ps auxww has a lot more going on in it, I actually see a lot fewer extraneous processes than I remember from my Fedora 18 days. >> >> 20 processes is still a lot when e.g. booting from an eMMC or a sdcard those add a significant amount of time to the startupo time. > > I agree, we really have too many things starting, to many things > running, and too many things generating errors. > > Instead of 'ps aux', 'systemctl -t service --state running' is easier to interpret: > UNIT LOAD ACTIVE SUB DESCRIPTION > accounts-daemon.service loaded active running Accounts Service > alsa-state.service loaded active running Manage Sound Card State (restore and store) > ^ do we really need this This used to be a startup / shutdown job thing only, but now I think it periodically saves the state. It might be good to file a (polite) bug against alsa-lib for this and see what Jaroslav has to say about this. > > avahi-daemon.service loaded active running Avahi mDNS/DNS-SD Stack > bluetooth.service loaded active running Bluetooth service > colord.service loaded active running Manage, Install and Generate Color Profiles > cups.service loaded active running CUPS Scheduler > ^ this should be socket activated, I haven't printed *anything* on this machine ever Agreed > dbus-:1.2-org.freedesktop.problems@0.service loaded active running dbus-:1.2-org.freedesktop.problems@0.service > dbus-broker.service loaded active running D-Bus System Message Bus > firewalld.service loaded active running firewalld - dynamic firewall daemon > gdm.service loaded active running GNOME Display Manager > geoclue.service loaded active running Location Lookup Service > gpm.service loaded active running Console Mouse manager > iio-sensor-proxy.service loaded active running IIO Sensor Proxy service > libvirtd.service loaded active running Virtualization daemon > low-memory-monitor.service loaded active running Low Memory Monitor > ^ this is interesting. gnome-shell.rpm requires lower-memory-monitor.rpm, and the default preset is on. > Do we still want this with systemd-oomd being on by default? > > mcelog.service loaded active running Machine Check Exception Logging Daemon This is another one for which it is questionable to have it running, or is this a machine with ECC RAM ? And even then I'm not sure if it adds a lot of value, or if just like smartd it just logs some stuff into syslog (where normal users won't see it). > ModemManager.service loaded active running Modem Manager > NetworkManager.service loaded active running Network Manager > pcscd.service loaded active running PC/SC Smart Card Daemon > pmcd.service loaded active running Performance Metrics Collector Daemon > pmie.service loaded active running Performance Metrics Inference Engine > pmlogger.service loaded active running Performance Metrics Archive Logger > polkit.service loaded active running polkit.service > sssd-kcm.service loaded active running SSSD Kerberos Cache Manager > sssd.service loaded active running System Security Services Daemon > switcheroo-control.service loaded active running Switcheroo Control Proxy service > systemd-homed.service loaded active running Home Area Manager > ^ hmm, I would think this would be go away on its own. Maybe something to fix upstream. > > systemd-journald.service loaded active running Journal Service > systemd-logind.service loaded active running User Login Management > systemd-machined.service loaded active running Virtual Machine and Container Registration Service > systemd-networkd.service loaded active running Network Service > systemd-resolved.service loaded active running Network Name Resolution > systemd-timesyncd.service loaded active running Network Time Synchronization > systemd-udevd.service loaded active running Rule-based Manager for Device Events and Files > systemd-userdbd.service loaded active running User Database Manager > udisks2.service loaded active running Disk Manager > upower.service loaded active running Daemon for power management > user@1000.service loaded active running User Manager for UID 1000 > user@6.service loaded active running User Manager for UID 6 > wpa_supplicant.service loaded active running WPA supplicant > > Then there's 'systemctl --user -t service --state running' which is even longer :( Yes, a good way to trim that down is also to look under /etc/xdg/autostart and remove packages which you don't use which drop a file there. > E.g. at-spi-dbus-bus.service has it's own dbus-broker instance. > That's better than in the past, at least it's not a different implementation > of dbus than the session bus ;) But we should consider if we can use the > session bus again. (In the past, dbus-daemon wasn't efficient enough, so a > separate bus was created. But dbus-broker is supposed to be more efficient.) > >> Note I'm not trying to blame anyone here; and especially not the authors/maintainers of the mentioned packages > > As one of those, I would say that the authors/maintainers of those > packages are the people best positioned to fix things. For example, > systemd-homed probably shouldn't be running, but this is something to > figure out upstream. > > (BTW, one thing which has improved a lot in this list is the pcp > stack. It's still 3 services with ~10 processes altogether, but the > total memory usage is <50MB, and CPU usage which was excessive last > year is reasonable. The maintainers put in the work here.) > >> but I do wish that we (the Fedora project) could make some time to >> go over this list and try to stop a whole bunch of programs / >> daemons from always starting when that is (IMHO) not really >> necessary. I would really like to see Fedora to become somewhat more >> lean / go on a diet here, which is something which I think would >> benefit everyone. > > Yes. > >> Given that I can halve the base processes RAM set with some hacks I >> think that it is fair to say that there are still way too much >> things starting by default. I have actually been considering doing >> a Fedora workstation light spin for budget x86 machines with 1G / 2G >> of RAM and an eMMC. > > I think there's still plenty of stuff to improve that will apply everywhere. > homed, alsactl, geoclue, colord just shouldn't need to be there all the time. I agree and TBH I was surprised that there were quite a few reactions suggesting that such a spin would be a good idea. OTOH such a spin will give lots of room for experimentation, to try out various things to improve the situation which we can then merge back into the regular Fedora Workstation. So given that I got a couple of "go for it" reactions and that I was already toying with the idea anyways I might actually try to make such a spin happen. The biggest problem for doing such a spin is finding the time for it... Are there any people who would be interested in working on / co-maintaining such a spin with me ? Regards, Hans _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
