On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 3:25 PM Adam Williamson <adamwill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Tue, 2020-03-31 at 21:18 +0200, Clement Verna wrote: > > On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 20:04, Adam Williamson <adamwill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 2020-03-31 at 13:55 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:44:35AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > > > I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Kevin and Michael here to a > > > > > significant extent. Running our own project on open source code has > > > > > always been a very big bright line for Fedora. > > > > > > > > You don't have to be sorry! I think it's very clear that this is the general > > > > community view. > > > > > > > > > I think Iñaki's take on the "oh, you contribute to Github projects so > > > > > no problem right?" angle is correct. > > > > > > > > Let me be sorry, though. That wasn't mean to be a "oh you..." statement. It > > > > was that other open source projects are not held to this standard, not to > > > > "gotcha" Michael or anyone else for their contributions elsewhere. > > > > > > I mean, held by who? This is a standard we have (more or less) held > > > ourselves to. Which, if you think about it, means it's a standard > > > that's in our DNA: we're a group of people who *thought it was > > > important enough to hold ourselves to that standard*. Would it be > > > hypocritical for someone outside of Fedora who happily uses software > > > from other projects that are hosted on Github or whatever to criticize > > > us if we were to do this? Sure, it would be. But this here is not that, > > > it's us holding ourselves to our own standards. > > > > > > Speaking personally, sure, I contribute to Github-hosted projects. I > > > maintain one project on Github (because it's extremely adjacent to > > > another project that's hosted on Github and the maintainers of that > > > project asked me to have it there, so I did). Hell, I send in fixes for > > > entirely proprietary things sometimes...because my overriding itch is, > > > if something is there, at least it had better *work* properly. But I > > > certainly would not consider hosting work that's a fundamental part of > > > Fedora on a proprietary system, I've always seen that as a *complete* > > > non-starter - whether we were considering test automation, result > > > tracking, event organization, anything like that, the very first rule > > > has always been, if it's not open source it's just not on the list at > > > all. And as far as I've noticed, that has been the same for all other > > > core Fedora stuff, for many years. > > > > > > > To add some nuance to stat statement a quite big chunk of the Fedora Infra > > apps are hosted on GitHub (https://github.com/fedora-infra), and relatively > > critical things like Bodhi, FAS, mirrormanager, ..... As far as I know most > > of Fedora CoreOS (and Silverblue ?) is also on GitHub. > > Sure. I tend to think of these as 'upstream projects' that we (Fedora) > consume as a downstream. Project hosting has always been a kinda > optional bolt-on, I think; going back to the days of fedorahosted.org I > don't think we've ever hosted everything "Fedora-adjacent" in our own > hosting service, it's always been a "use it if you want to" thing, and > the rule for using a project in Fedora has always been "is it open > source?", not "how is it hosted?". Although the Council changed that hard line some time ago. > For that reason, I think the "what to do with Pagure.io?" element of > this discussion is less critical than the src.fp.o part. > > > A critical part of > > our infrastructure the NFS shared storage also run an proprietary software > > (NetApp). > > That's been covered already, and was why I put the "(more or less)" > caveat into my quote. Of course, when you're getting to storage > appliances, you're getting into pretty fuzzy territory, because we > don't worry about the openness of the firmware running on our servers > and stuff like that either...we've never quite been at FSF levels of > ideological purity. But to me, this is at a different level to that. I see what we do for a dist-git fronting forge as far less compelling for "purity level" tests because nearly all the meaningful content is still easily copied and/or forked. Using open source for our specific authentication needs (self-service groups, etc.), for instance, is a recent example of a more compelling level, and the CPE group is putting time into that project accordingly. -- Paul _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
