On 03/03/2020 17:35, Neal Gompa wrote: > On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 4:10 AM Daniel Pocock <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 28/02/2020 10:00, Ankur Sinha wrote: >>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 17:07:21 -0500, Dakota Williams via devel wrote: >>>> On 2/26/20 6:59 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote: >>>> <snip> >>>>>> >>>>>> Would you like help? I'd be willing to be a co-maintainer to make the >>>>>> branch. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I would welcome help with these packages >>>>> >>>>> But there is also an increasing problem of making decisions about trust >>>>> >>>>> In the case of developers who I haven't met or worked with, I don't >>>>> really know how to proceed >>>>> >>>>> I've seen several extraordinary examples of developers doing things that >>>>> undermine my confidence in them over the last couple of years. The >>>>> fighting within GNU and FSF right now is the latest iteration of that. >>>>> >>>>> Now, whenever I receive a request from somebody I don't know, there is >>>>> an extra effort for me to decide how to proceed. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe I can simply resign from maintaining the asio package and then opt >>>>> out of the process of choosing a new maintainer. >>>>> >>>>> Please don't take this personally: it is a reflection of the overall >>>>> state of free software communities today. >>>>> >>>> I don't know about the situation with the GNU project and the FSF, but if >>>> there's something you'd like me to do to prove trust, I could do it. >>> >>> I'd like to add that by default we trust each other, in the spirit of >>> being excellent to each other. In this particular case, >> >> Why, then, have my replies to this thread never appeared in the mailing >> list then, only to the people on CC? >> >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/thread/JGCY5GM42SR2BEXGNUP6C335IFEV66KD/ >> > > I do not know why. I have filed an issue with infrastructure to find > out: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/8713 Thanks for doing that Here are some observations: - the original email was sent to my pocock.com.au address and so my mail client replied to all mails using that address, I didn't notice until now. That address is not subscribed. - my other address, pocock.pro, is subscribed - the list didn't give me any bounces or alerts that messages were held. At least some lists give warnings when a mail is sent from an address that is not subscribed - the last message sent from the pocock.pro address was on 19 August, it was delivered to the list but only with a delay of 9 minutes - the message prior to that was delayed by 20 hours inside Fedora: Received: from mailman01.phx2.fedoraproject.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mailman01.phx2.fedoraproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE3858968E1E; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 14:43:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mailman01.phx2.fedoraproject.org (Postfix, from userid 991) id DCFA658968E12; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:25:21 +0000 (UTC) Combined with the blog censorship and other things going on in various places, this type of observation is not very motivating but I do understand things sometimes go wrong for technical reasons. >> My own statement wasn't directed at any particular maintainer and >> doesn't imply that I am ungrateful for any offers of help. I am very >> grateful for those people, including Dakota, who reached out in a >> positive way. >> >> Trust is not a constant thing, it can change over time. The wider >> atmosphere and the disappearance of messages from mailing lists >> contributes to lower confidence. >> >> Unfortunately, I now see several emails every week (not necessarily from >> the Fedora mailing lists) that cause suspicion and concern. I then feel >> a need to look at every other interaction more carefully. >> >> When I mentioned the death of my father in a blog recently, my blog was >> removed from Planet Fedora. Now it seems my emails go to a moderator >> who doesn't have the time to keep up with all those censorship duties. >> I find this behaviour incredibly insulting and degrading, I suspect >> anybody in my position would feel the same way. >> > > I'm sorry about that. I don't know what happened there either. > >>> co-maintainership shares responsibility but does not hand it over >>> completely (the handing-over bit can be done at a later stage, if >>> necessary). Every change/commit/message is public, so there are plenty >>> of opportunities to catch any errors. >>> >>> Given that we do not often meet our Fedora colleagues in person, it is >>> not viable to expect members of the community to prove trustworthiness >>> through personal relationships. We assume the best in each other, and if >>> things do get hairy, we have open community channels, processes, and >>> overseeing bodies through which changes can be emended. >> >> My email was not a request for Dakota or anybody else to prove >> trustworthiness, it was only a reflection of my own perception of things >> going on in the wider free software community. >> >> But based on what you say, I'm happy to give access to Dakota and I'd >> also like to know if anybody else can help with the reSIProcate >> packages. There is a new release in the pipeline and if somebody wants >> to get involved, now is the time. We already made all the upstream >> fixes required for it to work with the latest dependencies on Fedora. >> > > Thanks for granting Dakota maintainer privileges for asio! :) > > I may be able to spare some cycles to help with reSIProcate (after I > get out of my mountain of FTBFS issues...). I'm sure other folks here > could help as well. :) As upstream release manager, I try to keep the needs of packaging in mind so it shouldn't be too hard to maintain Regards, Daniel _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
