On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 4:57 PM Miro Hrončok <mhroncok@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Hello, in this thread (Fedora 32 System-Wide Change proposal: Modules in > Non-Modular Buildroot) > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/message/JNTMUOBZHHCEOV7KS7MRNOBO6VGGT7RX/ > > I've asked whether it wouldn't be in fact much easier to keep the default > versions of our packages non-modular. > > Others have said they are interested in this as well. A huge thread happened but > it hasn't delivered an answer. > Arguments were made that default modular streams are planned to deliver the > exact same experience as non-modular packages, yet it was not said if it > wouldn't be easier to just deliver non-modular packages for default versions. > > Maybe it would be helpful to try to reformulate the question: > > > **What are the benefits of default modular streams over non-modular packages?** > > > I'll admit that I personally don't see any benefits, but of course that doesn't > mean that they don't exist or that it's not worth having this discussion. (snip) > Considering we have 6 default modular streams, Just to make this explicit for the people who don't know how to determine this themselves (which includes me): Which six modules do provide a default stream? I can't seem to tell by looking at any modules' yaml files. I hope this counts as a clarifying question, and not as a negative "this is difficult to figure out" criticism ;) Fabio > let me acknowledge that for the > maintainers who decided to deliver default modular streams instead of > non-modular packages, there clearly are some benefits. > While some of us might not understand them, let's not say there are none. But > even if there are clear benefits for the maintainers of those modules, I'm > asking about the benefits for everybody else. > > I'm mainly interested in benefits for: > - Fedora users > - Fedora non-modular packagers > - Fedora QA > - Fedora Release Engineering > - Community Platform Engineering Team > - Fedora downstream > > To get the most out of this discussion I think it's useful to set a few rules, > similarly to the official modularity complaint thread: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/thread/CAT3WZ5OJ2N3TPKRHZA3N3PVNSOYX32I/ > > So let's set some rules: > > 1. Always assume good faith. If you are not sure, ask clarifying questions. > > 2. No complaints. This thread is about benefits. Use the complaint thread for > complaints. > > 3. Any vague speculative benefits will be ignored. "I think that having default > modular streams sends a better message about how we are a progressive > distribution" is an example of a speculative statement. Always be try to be > concrete about who benefits, how and by what means. > > 4. Any argument based on the already spent money/time/energy to deliver default > modular streams is to be ignored. It's a classic example of a sunk cost fallacy. > "I think we need default modular streams because people have been working really > hard to make them happen" is an example of such argument. > > -- > Miro Hrončok > -- > Phone: +420777974800 > IRC: mhroncok > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
