On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 12:11:56PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 04:34:55PM +0000, Jeremy Cline wrote: > > I'd just like to say that I have found this thread very demoralizing. I > > think Randy has valid points and has brought them up far more > > respectfully than I could and I feel like it's being dismissed as > > trolling. I think this has a very negative affect on people's > > willingness to put their opinions out there and is going to lead to an > > echo chamber. > > It's definitely gone of the rails, and I'm sorry. I didn't mean for that to > happen. I want to hear people's opinions even if they're dissenting. > > But, I still am having a hard time seeing the thing I quoted as a respectful > approach. I avoided paraphrasing before, but I'm going to now, not to > caricature what Randy said but to clarify how it sounds to me and what I'm > reacting to. The message in entirety was: > > I've pointed out a few times that other distros have solved the "too > fast, too slow" problem. In at least one case, as long ago as 2004. I > see it as a solved problem and I don't understand why we are trying to > solve it again. > > To, that isn't "hey, maybe you missed an elegant prior art we could adapt". > To me, it seems to say "this effort is a waste of time -- this problem is > already solved". > > And mentioning "as long ago as 2004" seems ... well, like I said, > inflammatory. > > This is not a respectful way to say this to the people who have put a lot of > *years* into working on this problem and solving it in Fedora. Even if we > take as given that other distros have solved the problem for their users, it > being solved _there_ doesn't directly help us _here_. The work people did to > get us to where we are now _does_. > I've seen Randy ask multiple times why Gentoo's approach won't work for us, specifically, and I've seen zero responses (apologies if I've missed them across all the threads). Other folks are highlighting how people have been working on Modularity for years so I don't think highlighting that there's been prior art that does seem to check every box around for *15 years* is particularly inflammatory. Could the sentence have been intelligible without it? Sure, but it certainly doesn't feel like a valid reason to discard a whole solution, nor does it feel like you're assuming positive intent here. As I said, this is all very demoralizing and this kind of stuff is why I've stopped involving myself in Fedora things outside of my direct work responsibilities. - Jeremy _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
