On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 6:52 PM Chris Murphy <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:57 PM Christopher <ctubbsii@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > At the very least, it'd be nice if anaconda had an option to select > > the default firewalld zone during installation, > > A somewhat related feature that was rejected by FESCo > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SecurityPolicyInTheInstaller > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-March/196666.html I think the fact that the Workstation WG's proceeded with an effectively disabled firewall after FESCo rejected the complete disabling of it, somewhat undermines your point here about rejection of a similar proposal being relevant to the current one. In any case, I don't think these are that similar. I think this is sufficiently different from that proposal. This is much more narrowly scoped that a whole new security policy dialogue. It would be limited to just an UI element in the existing network configuration dialogue... in the same spirit as the familiar NetworkManager zone selection dropdown that I recall seeing at some point (but not sure if it's still there). It'd barely be different than adding "WPA3" as an option to the same section of the installer (I use as an example, because I think it's safe to assume that's the kind of installer feature change that would be readily accepted). > > Neat idea. But complicates an already complicated installer. Many > responses in that at the time, in devel@ and FESCo, were concerned > about balancing out users even though they liked the overall idea. Yeah, I also don't want a complicated installer. I just don't see this disagreement going anywhere without some sort of compromise, and I can't think of any others that will satisfy people. I think there's a good chance this could be implemented without much complexity, though. Thank you for giving the idea at least a little consideration, though, and not outright dismissing it. A similar idea that would keep it separate from the installer might be to offer a dialogue as a "first-boot" action, but that seems like it'd be a very GNOME-specific thing, and firewalld is not specific to the WM/Desktop. > > Working group members have to make UI/Ux judgements all the time, and > things not going the way you would have is not a good enough reason to > impugn those making these decisions. You could have just said you > disagree. But you went much further. You assert there is not only a > lack of respect for the community, but that is it a complete lack. 0%. > Not even 50/50? > > Again, hyperbole, that cannot be taken seriously, because it does not > withstand even a little bit of scrutiny. > My statement was intended to be qualitative, not quantitative, but I take your point. Yes, it was, in fact, hyperbole, and I apologize for my poor word choice. > I'm recently a member on the Workstation working group, I know the > members on it. The reason why everyone is on it is because they care > very much about, and respect the community immensely, and demonstrate > it with deliberation and significant effort. I'm sure that's true. I have no reason to doubt any of that. My statements aren't about them as individuals... I've tried to be careful about that, because 1) I don't think it's helpful to call out individuals here, and 2) I don't think what I've said about the group applies to the individuals (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division). > > It's not good enough to just say things forcefully and expect that > people will agree as if you're a hammer, and they're a nail. You have > to work harder than you are working, if your goal really is to be > persuasive. I have tried to point to specific actions taken (or not taken) by the WG that I think demonstrate the previous lack of respect I referred to. I am not simply trying to persuade by saying things "forcefully" (however that works). If you are not persuaded, that's fine. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
