On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:36 AM John Harris <johnmh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Essentially disabling the firewall falls under having a "bad design for > everyone else". Disabling the firewall is something that could be considered > hostile to the user. This is hyperbole, and turning up the volume isn't going to make anyone go "oh, ok, now I see your point, it's hostile and we don't want to do that, let's change it" as if literally everyone reading this is some kind of moron. Your position is shown to be weak if you have to use this distinctly non-objective tactic designed to evoke an emotional response in the reader. All you're doing is casually dismissing one side of a balancing act and then claiming the result as proof the policy should change. Guess what? Saying things does not make them true. You should try to understand all of these arguments have happened before, and if you really want a change to happen, you need a produce a compelling new arguments. Did the previous working group misunderstand something previously? Has new information come to light? Has the GUI firewall app made UI/Ux improvements that might sway the working group to re-evaluate? By all means shout more. And be ignored. Or do the hard work and put together a deliberate and compelling argument. > I fail to see how the comparison to MacOS applies here. Tons of installations. 1% of their user base dwarfs ours. If firewall disabled by default were so hideously flawed, there'd be a million users getting malware, and we'd hear about it including and autopsy report saying, effectively, Apple's crazy because their firewall would have prevented this. But that isn't happening. Windows is likewise a fair contra example, but I can't assess to what degree their firewall is a security strategy that helps prevent infections, versus reputation repair. And that is in some sense where we are right now. Do we have examples of penetrated systems that the firewall would have prevented? This is a real problem, a theoretical problem that can be tested unambiguously, or is it purely hypothetical? It's definitely a problem when people's applications silently fail to work in weird ways and is non-obvious that the cause is the firewall. -- Chris Murphy _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
