Le 2019-03-27 03:46, Nico Kadel-Garcia a écrit :
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 3:44 AM Nicolas Mailhot
<nicolas.mailhot@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
POSIX is dead as a shell compatibility target. You want to replace
bash
with something faster, by all means do it. With something that
includes
the GNU extensions like pushd/popd that most packagers expect today.
Is there any reason to *ever* use pushd or popd in %build or %install
today?
That is totally the wrong attitude when you want to replace an
implementation used for years by thousands of volunteer people in tens
of thousands of interdependent files.
It is used now, ergo packagers (the people who did the work) find it
useful and convenient. You want them to do something else, you need to
make it worth their effort to something else. Winning 10 minutes of CPU
time in a single pathological spec like gcc isn't it.
The easiest way to make it worth their effort is to reduce the effort to
zero, ie implement the capabilities commonly people use in your target
replacement shell. That will be way way easier than trying to invent
something compelling enough for them to change their habits. 10% of
specs doing something is definitely common use.
Another way is to take the conversion work unto yourself. But that does
not solve the ongoing effort of helping packagers that try to use bash
syntax in their spec because they need to do something, and find out it
does not work, and give up because the additional work of looking for
alternatives makes the cost/benefit analysis of packaging something
negative. We have many packages where the cost/benefit hovers next to
the limit, because we have nice volunteers that will go to their limits
for Fedora.
Yet another is to propose a syntax with is clearly simpler, more
expressive, more productive and better documented for humans (Not CPUs.
CPUs do not get to vote). But, that solves "new spec and macro code"
problem, not the "existing code" problem.
Hazing people with negative terms like bashism never convinced anyone.
Especially when others are doing the work, not you. In my language, that
is called “arriving after the battle”: complaining loudly at the people
who sweated and blooded doing some work, that they didn't do it well
enough, when you were safely somewhere else, at the time help was
needed.
Sincerely,
--
Nicolas Mailhot
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