On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 9:00 AM Nicolas Mailhot <nicolas.mailhot@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Le 2019-02-01 13:17, Josh Boyer a écrit : > > > Fedora is a project, not a venture capital firm. Things get done > > because people do them, prove they work, get buy-in, and evolve over > > time. If that means ideas or projects start small and outside > > existing Fedora infrastructure, that's OK! > > I think there is a misunderstanding of what the "Friends" Fedora value > actually means. A lot of @RH contributors are developers at core and > only see Friends in a dev context: sharing source code with others, and > to hell with distro packages, and Fedora as a binary package > distribution in general. > > But, there are already lots of instances where you can collaborate on > code (the Apache Foundation, etc). Fedora isn't one of those no matter > how devs push for it to become one (sometimes our desktop friends seem > to see Fedora as some form of GNOME Foundation sugar daddy nothing > more). I agree. Fedora is not a typical developer project. It is a distribution project. > What "Friends" mean in a Fedora context, is being to collaborate on > binary packages (rpms), and a best of breed integrated system, no matter > what your team size is, no matter if you do it as a hobbyist or as part > of some job, no matter what level of the software stack you're > interested in. Maybe so. I'm not convinced that's really what "Friends" means, but the sentiment around collaboration isn't really wrong. > Whenever Fedora chooses to deploy infra solutions that are unmanageable > except @RH, it's hurting its core Friends value. Whenever Fedora > separates its offerings in special Editions (basically declaring "we > don't care about those other use cases") it is hurting its Friends > value. Whenever Fedora invests in deployment solutions, which can only I disagree that is what Editions is doing. > be applied on the desktop, only applied on openshift, or whatever, it is > hurting its Friends value. Whenever the Fedora main sponsor, chooses to > segment EL in unmanageable optional channels and modules that require > some friendly commercial help to be navigated, it's hurting its > "Friends" value (and it *is* hurting Fedora when EPEL rules are chosen > to accommodate unfriendly @RH policy). I can't comment on EPEL. I'm only a user, not a contributor. It works well for my uses though. > And, why am I writing all this? Because the old proprietary behemoths > like Oracle, that justified investing in the Fedora/Centos/RHEL > ecosystem, are slowly fading away. Really? Can you illustrate that with data? I don't mean to be argumentative, but there is a very old, large, and blue behemoth that just decided to plunk down a $34B investment on all of those things. > That is going to make Debian a direct Fedora competitor to attract > contributions and getting things done, when before anyone saddled with > Oracle or SAP or whatever wouldn't even look at Debian. And, because > Debian is a competent distribution, and because Debian has the same > software reach (or more) than Fedora, a huge part of the choice is going > to be made on the Friends axis. "going to"? If you believe that Fedora and Debian are not *already* in competition for contributions with other distros or projects then I'm somewhat confused. > So yes Fedora is not a venture capital firm. That does not mean it is > not competing. It's just competing for contributions, not money. OK? I'm missing your point on this one. > Thus stating clearly how initiatives like MBI, contribute to "Friends" > excellence, is not some form of weird request, it's a survival > requirement for Fedora as a project. That is, as long as Friends is > supposed to be a core value and a core differentiator of the Fedora > proposition. I didn't say it was a weird request. I didn't even say it was a bad idea! I said it's unproven and requires *further* investment on the part of the project as a whole, which seems premature. I can appreciate your perspective and focus on Friends to argue your position, but it can easily be turned around as well. I would rather see things mature in Fedora on technical merit and not because of pitch around a social construct that frankly doesn't exist. The Fedora project is friendly and welcoming and respectful. That doesn't mean we're all friends nor does it mean that everyone's ideas get equal investment. josh _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
