Sorry to reply to myself here, but I meant to reply to this part and forgot: On 12/05/2017 02:53 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On 12/05/2017 01:56 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote: > >> My observation is that the people who "like" email are simply not aware >> of the other options. There is a perception that it is easy and/or the >> lowest common denominator. It is very easy for script developers to >> write a couple of lines of code to generate an email. Over time email's >> inefficiency is a huge cost to the Fedora project and any other >> organization doing things this way. I'm not sure I agree with this. Dashboards and point in time reporting provides great information for some cases, but discrete history at each change is also sometimes the information you want. >> Think about it like this: somebody goes away for a 6 week extended >> vacation and they come back to find 1000 automated email messages >> waiting, I worked in one company where that was the way things were >> done. The consequences: >> >> - the emails are sorted chronologically, not in priority order, so the >> user doesn't know which emails to look at first >> >> - they don't know which emails have been fixed by somebody else >> >> - they don't know which emails somebody else is already investigating >> >> - if 50 of those emails relate to a single problem or incident, it is >> not obvious which email represents the root cause of the problem Sure. I personally filter emails into a number of buckets. So, when I came back and had 1000 emails, most of them would already be filtered. So, I would know I don't need to immediately look at mailing lists or other things that are lower priority. >> The person coming back to that inbox might spend 1 day just checking the >> emails. Or maybe 2-3 hours each day during the week after their >> vacation, without really working on them, just trying to work out which >> issues were still open, which emails are duplicates, prioritizing them, etc. I get a lot of email, but I don't think I have ever had to spend weeks going through backlog. >> Even when people don't go on vacation, they are losing a bit of time >> every day on such filtering chores. Add it all up and it is a huge cost >> to organizations. As a large organization, Fedora "loses" more time >> this way than a small organization. >> >> In contrast, another company I worked in had a strict policy against >> emails, things couldn't be released into production unless they worked >> with the dashboard. Any developer, sysadmin or manager could look at >> the dashboard in the morning and quickly see the top 3 issues nobody was >> working on. Yeah, but what about: * You have added another maintainer to a package you maintain. You want to watch their commits and tell them when you see something they should change or do better on. Or * You want to see the exact series of events that led up to a package being fixed. Or * You want to be notified immediately if some action takes place because you want to talk to whoever is doing it to change a workflow. I think there is a place for dashboards and email and irc and mobile phone alerts and ... it depends some on the thing and some on the person who is getting it. kevin
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