On Thu, 2017-05-18 at 10:23 +0100, James Hogarth wrote: > On 18 May 2017 at 09:16, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@xxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 11:29:42PM +0100, James Hogarth wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > It was pointed out on IRC to me tonight that there are actually a > > > reasonable number of packages that still depend on net-tools[0]. > > > > What's wrong with net-tools? I always install it on my machines to > > get the familiar BSD-style tools. Also the replacements like "ip" > > are > > not really improvements. > > > > Rich. > > > > > > I don't want to get into an exhaustive detailing of the issues on > this > list, as it doesn't seem the right place for it and it is a diversion > of the point of the thread... > > But a few things in brief: > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > The tools in the net-tools package uses the old IOCTL interfaces with > the kernel, which leaves them very limited in what they can do. Way > back in 2.2 the netlink socket api was added as a more flexible > method > of interacting than ioctl, to give an idea of how far back this now > goes. > > You can dive into the history of iproute2 a bit yourself here: > > https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/networking/iproute2 > http://linux-ip.net/html/tools-iproute2-remarks.html > Hi, first TLDR all email on this thread but If not already suggest I strongly recommend one wiki page with this subject, for example like : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EasierPythonDebugging yeah netstat is deprecated in favour of ss from the iproute package [1] [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1234420#c5 > Now for some examples... > > Since ifconfig uses the limited ioctl interface it is not capable of > displaying secondary IP addresses on an interface, such as VIPs put > in > place by keepalived or pacemaker. > > https://www.hogarthuk.com/?q=node/6 > > The route command only works on the default main table and has no > concept of the full routing decisions the kernel makes (compare route > print to ip route li table all for example) and there's no ability > to > check ip rules through net-tools. > > IPv6 is becoming far more important but there's almost no ability to > handle that through net-tools (try to find an equivalent for ip -6 > neigh sh) > > The people working on the kernel network stack developed iproute2 > alongside the network stack to properly support and interface to it. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > That's just a few bits, and as I've said I'd rather not get diverted > from the actual scope and goal. > > Now I have heard the argument made "why not port net-tools to netlink > so the old stuff is still valid?" but someone needs to do that work, > not just ask the question. Open Source is a meritocracy after all ;) > > The people with the best knowledge to do that already wrote a set of > userspace tools against netlink ... that's iproute2 > > Now I know familiarity can be nice but do be aware there's not even > compatibilty (in arguments or output) between the BSD ifconfig and > the > linux net-tools ifconfig and they are not actually related in code at > all. > > I urge you to break your muscle memory - especially as IPv6 becomes > more prevalent - and I urge everyone not to veer off the topic > proposed any further than we have done already :) > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- Sérgio M. B. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
