On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 05:34:31PM -0800, Brendan Conoboy wrote: > On 12/17/2015 05:27 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > >On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 04:13:06PM -0800, Brendan Conoboy wrote: > >>On 12/17/2015 01:43 AM, Harald Hoyer wrote: > >>>For docker containers, or containers, which don't want systemd, the current > >>>"Requires: systemd" in a lot of packages is preventing building a minimal image. > >>> > >>>To improve the situation, we could make use of the new rpm weak dependencies. > >>>So the > >>> > >>>Requires(post): systemd > >>>Requires(preun): systemd > >>>Requires(postun): systemd > >>> > >>>would become > >>> > >>>Recommends: systemd > >>>OrderWithRequires(post): systemd > >>>OrderWithRequires(preun): systemd > >>>OrderWithRequires(postun): systemd > >>> > >>>With this in place, kickstart files could omit systemd. > >>> > >>>The downside is: > >>>- if systemd is installed afterwards, the %post scripts do not trigger > >>>- packages, which need systemd-tmpfiles or systemd-sysusers could not be converted > >>> > >>>If systemd is removed before the other packages, I don't see a problem. > >>>There are only leftovers in /etc/systemd. > >>> > >>>To prevent having a non-bootable system (not container), we could let the > >>>kernel.spec have a Requires on systemd. > >>> > >>>Comments? Please discuss. > >> > >>I haven't seen a lot of downside brought up in this thread. If the > >>only objections people have is that it doesn't facilitate their > >>personal use cases those don't seem like real objections. Is > >>anybody going to be really negatively impacted by such a change? > >> > >>For my part I'd like to see this happen, not just for packages > >>requiring systemd, but for all packages where "Requires" is really > >>stronger than necessary. Now that we have soft dependencies it > >>would be nice to go through and move to Recommends where software > >>continues to function in some reduced capacity. > > > >For some packages "reduced capacity" because of lack of systemd.rpm > >means "doesn't even get started as expected" or "crashes on > >start with permission errors" or "cannot write logs" or similar. > >Like Lennart and Neil said, utilities provided by systemd.rpm are the > >basis which allows many things to "just work". This is so obvious > >that it is assumed implicitly in this disussion, and it's hardly > >"personal use cases". > > If the software crashes on start with permission error that's not > really working in a reduced capacity. Exactly. So Required(post/pre/preun):systemd cannot currently be changed to Recommmends, at least in the general case. Zbyszek -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
