On Wed, 2015-09-02 at 20:49 -0400, Eric Griffith wrote: > Adam have you gotten in touch with Upstream at all? Seen if maybe > they can > make changes on their end to make packaging any easier? I'm sure > some parts > of it are just a result of php being php, but you did mention > bundling for > part of it. Maybe they'd be willing to work with downstream > packagers to > get things in a better place? Extensively. They're reasonably willing to take changes that don't make their primary deployment story (use the bundled-to-hell OBS packages or use a bundled-to-hell container) any more complicated, but that's about it. They're not willing to proactively work on it themselves, and they won't take any changes that make the other approach even marginally more complicated. They also don't really seem to care much about trying to limit external dependency use or at least only use dependencies with relatively sane versioning policies either; they follow the typical PHP approach of 'throw libraries at the problem till it goes away (and evolves into a much nastier problem)'. Viz that time they decided they wanted JavaScript minification, so they threw this bunch of complete craziness into the source tree: https://github.com/mrclay/minify (it's a giant bundle of minifiers and web service minifier interfaces, including one notoriously not- actually-F/OSS one, with no kind of sane maintenance practices whatsoever). I'm still trying to finally get a PR which gets rid of that thing and uses JSqueeze instead merged. "PHP" really is about 80% of the problem here. PHP as an ecosystem is so heavily tied to bundling (particularly through Composer / Packagist, which is explicitly designed around bundling), and has such thoroughly entrenched traditions of terrible library development practices, that it's very rare to find a significant PHP project that even tries to be developed the 'right' way (wordpress and roundcube are the best examples I can think of). -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
