----- Original Message ----- > On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 09:39:28 -0500 (EST) > Bohuslav Kabrda <bkabrda@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > Not sure about it being the default, but we've been testing it in > > DevAssistant for dependency installation on Python 3 and never > > encountered any problems. I was also contacted by dnf maintainer with > > a question on how to switch "dnf" to use > > "python3-dnf" (package-wise), so I guess that's what will be done for > > F22 (but that's just my guess, dnf maintainer would have to comment > > here). > > See the thing there that makes my teeth itch is: dnf has been > massively great about having a long on-ramp. It appeared, it didn't > replace yum, it let people try it out and report bugs, there was a long > time of testing. Thats all great. But now, we switch it to dnf-3 and... > that has not had years of running in rawhide and other releases, it has > not had people testing it and reporting bugs. While the code overlap > could be pretty large, I am willing to bet a shiny us dollar that there > are some python 3 specific bugs lurking in it. > > So, we turn on this not very tested path and immediately try and use it > as default in anaconda and a new release. What happened to our nice > long ramp? Or any ramp? I just had a quick IRC chat with DNF maintainer and he said we still wants to switch to py3 for F22. > > > Even still, that hinges on DNF being the default package manager in > > > F22. There are some concerns that it won't make it due to rel-eng > > > tooling used to compose the images, etc. If that's the case, yum > > > will still be required. > > > > Required, yes, but we'll still have tons of packages built with > > Python 2. I never said that porting rel-eng tooling is the goal for > > F22. > > Might be good to note that on the change page: > > We will not be replacing python2 entirely, it and packages that depend > on it will still be available for now. Doesn't [1] say it? > > So if more minimal is minimal buildroot, then we can achieve that, > > since it only has python-libs because of gdb and gdb can be rebuilt > > with Python 3 (upstream source is compatible). If that means minimal > > cloud image, then we can do it (we're waiting for the cloud-init > > folks to accept the py3 patches, which should happen any time now). > > If that means content from fedora-live-base.ks, then we can do pretty > > much everything, except of samba (I think) - and Petr Viktorin is > > doing some talking to people to get rid of samba from this config, > > because it seems to be unnecessary there. > > ok. So, perhaps we should have a change around this for f22, but it > should be: Python 3 migration improvements or something, not > 'default' ? Yeah, as noted by Stephen Smoogen, I think the problem is communication here. Judging from reactions of people who I talked to, everyone takes it as "FESCo thinks that Python 3 is not ready and not the way to go right now". That's also what I thought when I read simple "defer this to F23". After these conversations here I'm starting to understand that this is not a message that FESCo meant to send. "Python 3 migration improvements" sounds about right to me and seems to send a better message than just deferring to F23. Can someone from FESCo comment on this? If this sounds ok, shall I create a change page for it? > > Considering all the information mentioned above and assuming Anaconda > > makes it, I'd say it should be perfectly possible to declare Python 3 > > the default. As for the packages that are not in the minimal > > installs, I can always open bugs for them before beta and only those > > maintainers who believe it to be safe can switch. > > Yeah, so if anaconda switches we get: > > * anaconda switches to dnf (this is already done in rawhide after last > branch point, so I think it's quite safe/doable). > * anconda switches to dnf-3 (if we land that change. It's gotten 0 > testing that I know of). As I noted above, DevAssistant devels have been using python3-dnf for quite some time now without any issues. I've written couple of scripts using python3-dnf and run them regularly without any issue. I even replaced "#!/usr/bin/python" by "!#/usr/bin/python3" in /usr/bin/dnf some time ago and everything still works (how ugly is that? :)). I know, that's not extensive testing, but it's certainly not zero. > * anconda switches to python3 (it's almost ready, but no telling what > issues we will hit, it's not even landed yet). > > Should we toss in a UI redesign so we can have Fedora 18 again? > (sorry, that was rude of me) Why not :) > Wouldn't it be safer to defer dnf-3 and anaconda-py3 for next cycle, > but make those changes in rawhide after the branch point? Then they > would actually get months of shake out... > > kevin I'd say we should leave this up to developers of DNF and Anaconda. They're the best ones to say whether they're ready or not. Slavek [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default#Upgrade.2Fcompatibility_impact -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
