Re: Ramblings and questions regarding Fedora, but stemming from gnome-software and desktop environments

[Hedayat Vatankhah <hedayat.fwd@xxxxxxxxx>]

Luya Tshimbalanga wrote on Fri, 02 Jan 2015 17:29:14 -0800:

On 02/01/15 01:15 PM, Hedayat Vatankhah wrote:

 

Probably true, but it already includes fonts and input sources. So, someone has felt that 'front-end applications only' is too narrow. Now, where you can draw the line?

I exaggerated.

Did you try that? The problem with searching for "C++" is that it will list almost all applications (probably it searches for "C"). So it has nothing to do with DevAssistant.

I just searched "C++" resulting a freeze of Gnome Software due to handling of "++" character. That is a bug I already submitted https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1178199
Normally, Gnome Software should list DevAssistant on the first list as I have no problem typing python or ruby keyword on the search field.

Thanks for filling the bug. :P I was thinking when I'll report it.

So, every IDE should have a 'clang' addon? and also a gcc addon? At least, if 'shared' add-ons are available things will be much easier.

In this case, why not?

I was actually suggesting a solution which could fit in the current design. I'm not against the latter (while I still prefer having them as independent applications, in case you really don't need an IDE. However, if it is also available as a DevAssistent add-on, it'd be good; but actually I'm mis-using DevAssistant as 'Development Tools' category!)

I wonder why people want to split developers into two categories: GUI-only and Terminal-only? Why there couldn't be a "GUI as much as possible developer"? Such a developer will prefer to install autotools and clang/gcc using a GUI application, then open a terminal and run "./configure && make && sudo make install" in shell? Why do people think that a developer which wants (actually, since currently there are no(?) GUI ways to do configure, make and make install, he is forced) to use terminal should be 'punished' to use command line for installing the tools he need?

They were attempt of create a frontend for that purpose and most of them were poorly implemented. Take a look of how Microsoft and Apple do their development. it is a matter of finding a better way of implementing the tool.

If you mean finding a replacement for autotools, I disagree. While having better ways is great (and actually, there are many 'autotools replacements' and some of them are GUI friendly. A good example is CMake), but there is a fact that there are many packages using autotools.
I don't know how Apple does it (but I think I remember some of my friends actually being *forced* to use command line to install an auto-tools based library), but I wonder if you know about a 'better way' Microsoft provides. As far as I know, installing and using third-party development libraries under Windows is nearly Terrible. And, the last time I tried to use Boost under Windows it certainly needed using command line to use boost build system. I used several other libraries under Windows, none of them provided any *good* means for installation and usage. Most importantly, Windows doesn't (or at least, didn't!) have any Software Center like tools at all. So, there are no means in Windows for finding and installing development libraries; and hence it can't be better or worse than ours!

(Well, hopefully in future there will be a tool (DevAssistant?) which can help you to configure, compile and install a package from source. Then, it can have gcc/clang/... compilers as its addons too; so it's become more practical to have GUI-only developers who don't need to install a compiler directly).

DevAssistant is a start. Next step will be adding packaging guideline and other stuff. It takes time but it can be done.

Add-ons cannot cover development libraries, unless every library is an add-on for all IDEs!

Then is IDE packaging issue. When it comes of using a development applications, the software should suggest installing the missing library. If Gnome Video is able to prompt uses to install missing component, then why shouldn't be possible for IDE application to do the same?
Granted I don't know well the functionality but the logic is application should detect and suggest adding the missing function.

Hmm... that's weird, I can't understand what you mean. Gnome Video's job is very easy: a video has a special format, and there are specific plugins to enable playing that. However, assume that I need an XML library for C++:
1. How can I tell the IDE that I need an XML library?
2. What should IDE do if there are 5 different XML libraries for C++? How should I tell it which one I want, specially if I don't know what should I use already, and want to see what is available out there?

To me, it seems like implementing a special purpose software manager inside IDE with almost all functionality GNOME Software provides. As I said in another post, user reviews/rating for development libraries (like what GNOME Software provides for applications) can be really helpful when a developer wants to choose a library for a specific purpose.

Regards,
Hedayat

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Luya Tshimbalanga
Graphic & Web Designer
E: luya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
W: http://www.coolest-storm.net

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