-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi! On 03.01.2014 19:14, Matthew Miller wrote: > […] So those are my things. What do you think about them? What > else should be included? What different directions should we > consider? How will we make Fedora more awesome than ever in the > coming year? Okay, I'll bite (after thinking whether writing this mail is worth it): I'm still undecided if I overall like Fedora.next or fear it. But more and more I tend to the latter position and wonder if it might be wise to slow things down: Do one more Fedora release the old style in round about June; that would give us more time to better discuss and work out Fedora.next and get contributors involved better in the planing. The main reason for that: Fedora.next is a huge effort that seems to make everything even more complicated. It imho is also sold pretty badly right now, as you have to invest quite a lot of time to understand what Fedora.next actually is. And Fedora.next to me seems like something the core contributors push forward without having really abort those Fedora contributors who don't have Fedora as one of their top priorities in life. Verbose: Yes, I really think the Fedora needs changes -- at some point a few years ago we mostly continued to do things as they have "always" been done (read: since Core and Extras merged), without thinking if those ways are still the best. So I welcomed Fedora.next in the beginning. But I, as someone that is not involved very much in Fedora any more, still fail to fully grasp it. Yes, there are many mailing list or blog posts and some docs in the wiki. But most of them are really way too long for people that have busy days; a lot of those docs are also quite "meta", nevertheless afaics failing to give a goal. Take https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora.next for example. It more a description of a vague idea without saying much concrete besides "design, build, and market three distinct Fedora products" (what is a Fedora product?). There are a few links there, but even https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora.next/boardproposal is still quite meta for something which is supposed to be the base for a release that is eight months or so away. It doesn't explain what problems are being solved or what happens to spins (KDE and such) or how often (according to current plans) Fedora will be released in the future. What really gives me the creeps on those pages: "sub-committees of FESCo, with individual governance structures". Those afaics are three Product Working Groups Workgroups, two Fedora Rings Working Groups and the Inter-WG for coordination. That sounds like a awful lot of overhead an even more bureaucracy than we already have. And we imho have way to much already (part of it is my fault!) – something I had hoped Fedora.next would try to fix. I these days wouldn't start contributing to Fedora, as all those rules and guidelines that the wiki provides would scare me off. That's what Fedora.next should fix imo, as we afaics need more contributors: I more often than a few years ago find packages in Fedora that are badly maintained or outdated. Contributing must be as easy as editing a wikipedia page. Further: kororaproject.org, fedorautils-installer and similar project show that there are people that want to make Fedora better. But they do their work outside of Fedora and RPM Fusion; fixing the issues directly at the root would be better for all of us. And I really wonder if Fedora.next is really backed by those community contributors that are not involved in Fedora to deeply. One reason for that: Fedora.next mails like the one I'm replying to seem to get very few responses -- especially considering the fact that Fedora.next is something really important and brought to a list where small details quite often spawn very long discussions. Sometimes it's different -- like the ongoing and long "3rd party and non-free software" discussion. That shows that a lot of people still care, but don't bother follow to closely what the workgroups discuss before it someone gets to a point where it's more visible. That's why I got the feeing a lot of contributors are simply waiting for more concrete details to emerge before deciding what to make of Fedora.next; or they simply at all don't care to much what the higher ups do, as getting involved on that level can cost quite a lot of time and can be frustrating (that's not a complaint, that's simply how it is often; wasn't much different in my days, but noticed that more when I wasn't that active an more myself). I have many more thoughts in my head, but I'll stop here, as those are basically the most important things that bother me right now when looking at Fedora and Fedora.next. CU knurd P.S.: Fixed subject (s/2013/2014/) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJS4VlWAAoJEHK25u9MWD0tjR0QAJAe7Z35vN90Moq1mXGRpiMJ n6qYwGFiORpnzLkOkDBEZsyVGzhyyc3HfpFfpW71PEUiG8bJ07d07ZAAvCx7wUNK n4XQQozPBXX6cCq52+C7nHi8UsK2mk+fEEAEtBcaxk6fQth5bzlqtyBIO30OUx5O f4um596PEJrBQ3tEnU5y0OYNngk8DGbSuUc3shdk3Hh7beiFKz2EVG2Gwpy0wG4N Qic/Jm60mnoDNNIXPXbYeQ3HPql2/aPWIu6Bxgw5yCqXj9S8waDl/i1fUpEjrerd E4sub5oTvGCbKaqolE22BL42a2/7x3pUA4r/D1xTDGLuUxeWQzJXqLLoXbsRVW55 0LtAkZ/MW7dXmdE6Ck+f2esDpxvp6Mt+w4PX12/Dbbiqvgekula3VlcRWO9cqnxC Y3GgODGiJtyD3O6Ac2Hulj++3HUprl4LgMJxL4J36jjzgKbZjQKUQrTRQ4Yrp094 tKU5sZ+2T/WfiwGayze/ivH6iQYbNm8d+wh7nMylxuaQM2FWYs1zDffLPmz4Htn5 ypbfjab+FkP1zR33TvCfftUCu0Iz9jj9qfAfXJacXVoHFJkYMIDIYpFfLDBQ8LiI O7VsDWfj0n7u+3XqkmYOua7E51iv61cGA74yAXIs8ry9v0uLIwZ79DDY3NETgPyp YX4kccivgjawZm2GnUVX =Mqbq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
