On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 07:14 -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > While this has been amusing, a lot of useful detail may be lost in the > furor. There are some good philosophy questions about what GUI's > should support for replacing command line tools (the gnome > installation tool), hooks for getting command line tools to pop up as > GUI icons and behavior correctly, etc. > > But I'd like to strongly suggest stepping back and thinking about > "what should the GUI do, and how". Rather than merely pouring feature > and workaround and tweak after tweak into the GUI's, go take a good > look at Eric Raymond's essay on "The Luxury of Ignorance" and ask "is > this tool doing what a casual user reasonably expects it to do"? > System management tools such as package managers, benefit tremendously > from clarity. So a tool that has "install updates", but only lists the > downloaded on ones, would benefit from being clear and saying "install > downloaded updates". > > The practice of wrapping command line tools (such as yum) in GUI's can > be done well, but it often breaks down because the new GUI tries to > wrap new features into the workflow without telling anyone, and > creates a workflow that is inconsistent with or can't even be > replicated from the command line tools without hand-editing config > files. And the command line tools, in turn, break the GUI managed > settings. It can get nasty. (Don't get me started on NetworkManager!) > > So step back, and let's think "how can we make this work for someone > who hasn't seen it before and doesn't know how to hand-edit config > files"? Um. What? Apart from the rude top-posting, I don't see how any of the screed above relates to the discussion Olav and I were having at all. > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Adam Williamson <awilliam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 05:33 +0100, Olav Vitters wrote: > >> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:50:11PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > >> > Oh, hey, look. That place is rapidly becoming the 'crap, we don't know > >> > where to put this' dumping ground for GNOME 3, isn't it? > >> > >> It has been there since 3.0 AFAIK, so rapidly becoming is incorrect. > > > > It keeps growing more bits, though. > > > >> Anyway, calling design decisions "crap" and "dumping ground" is kind of > >> needlessly emotional. > > > > No emotion involved, I'm afraid. > > -- > > Adam Williamson > > Fedora QA Community Monkey > > IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net > > http://www.happyassassin.net > > > > -- > > devel mailing list > > devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
