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On 2013-03-12 18:30, Chris Murphy
wrote:
> From: Chris
Murphy <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Kernel update breaks system. User
ignorant
of hold-down key approach
> > is stuck. Menu at least advertises possibility
of alternative.
>
> This logic doesn't work. The user ignorant of holding
down even
> random keys, let alone what will become a common
knowledge key, is
> also ignorant of the existence of a boot menu, and
even more
> ignorant of the notion they need to choose a prior
kernel.
And said users are supposed
to become
more enlightened by obscuring the boot loader with an
invisible cloak just
because grub burns your retinas?
No, I'm saying that the idea people become enlightened by
seeing boot manager menus is an idea worthy of ridicule.
I
for one learned a hell of a lot about *nix systems by
playing with (among
many other things) the the kernel command line and doing
things like "init=/bin/bash".
While I find grub quite arcane, I do like to tinker with
low-level
details that affect the higher-level things. Such tinkering
got me
a decent career. Like it or not, general purpose PC
hardware needs
a boot loader.
It's tinkering that presents potential for enlightenment. Not
a visible boot manager menu by default.
This "GRUB must be visible for users to become curious and
knowledgeable" meme is f'n annoying deification. Curious users
will still be curious, those who want knowledge will seek it.
The bootloader menu god does not get one byte of credit for my
knowledge or intellectual curiosity.
It's as if every Windows (let alone Mac) user is a complete,
utter, retard in the minds of such linux users because they
don't suffer through every conceivable UX nightmare of the past
and present. We must bleed the new users with leeches! Yes! They
must be bled out properly in order to properly understand the
linux the way we do, and it can only be done with leeches! We
need more leeches, not less!
No one wants to take away your option to use leeches. I
realize it's shocking heresy that there might be new concepts,
and emphasis on what sorts of experiences people need to have,
let alone MUST have by default.
Chris Murphy
Although black/white is a nicer visual experience, I start to think
that this is, as usual, mostly just dull nuances of grey...
I *do* appreciate the attempts to get a clean, graphically
consistent boot experience. And to be frank, I wonder if not WIn 8
(and perhaps Mac) has got it right. It's just that a Fedora box
isn't a Win8 or a Mac, and the boot UI cant change that. We have:
- Kernel updates done regularly, sometimes breaking boot.
- Support for multiple OS, our BootCamp stuff.
- Boot processes which suddenly stalls running a diskcheck on a X
TB disk, creating user FUD.
- You name it...
So, how should all this be handled? Keeping the old interface, grub2
menu etc. the way we are used to? There must be better options.
Or hide everything, don't give user a damned hint (besides possibly
a google logo on the screen ;) ). This cannot be the final answer
either IMHO.
--alec
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