On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:51 AM, seth vidal <skvidal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I agree with one section of your argument: > arguments which are just "I'm not used to this" are bad arguments. > > Many of the arguments presented in this and other threads do not boil > down to that. If you believe them to do so, Jeff, then you're presenting > a straw man as I'm sure you're aware. I disagree this thread specifically boils down to familiarity argument. Shall I break down the original post point by point? - it is established, with a long history of familiarity within UNIX/Linux OS environments, whether by a professional or amateur sysadmin, a system programmer or architect, a technical or casual user straight up familiarity argument - adherence to UNIX principles which principles exactly? I don't recognize which principle a reliance on shell soup is a Unix principle of merit. I will say that I believe that systemd tries to take a step closer to the principle of clean simple interface than the complexity of the layered shell centric init we've built over the years. - ease of use due to shell scripting straight up familiarty argument. - transparency of code due to shell use how is shell more transparent? from my meager understanding of systemd we are actually getting better more systematic failure and logging information from systemd unit files than we get from the complexity of shell scripts. Are we not? - ease of system setup straight up familiarity argument. shell based is only easier because we are familiar with shell and its semantics. - ease of prototyping, editing, experimenting, etc straight up familarity argument. How is systemd harder to prototype with other than the fact we collectively aren't familiar with it yet? > Many of the arguments are this: All change has a cost. I'm not denying that change has no cost. But upkeep has a cost as well. Just because my father-in-law can keep his 40+ year old snow blower operationally tweaking it doesn't mean its the most valuable use of his time compared to buying a newer one and learning how to maintain the newer design. Then again his stated mission in life isn't to innovate snow blower design and be on the cutting edge of snow removal. -jef -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
