On 06/13/2011 03:27 PM, Alexander Kurtakov wrote: > On 02:12:43 PM Monday, June 13, 2011 Lucas wrote: >> >PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum >> >NOT USING "systemd" and force "upstart" as before >> > >> >* the system is running since years >> >* every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem >> >* now see screenshot >> >* WTF is there to relabel if started with "selinux=0"-kernel-param >> > >> >WHY IN THE WORLD ARE USERS FORCED TO USE SYSTEMD ONLY BECAUSE >> >THEY UPGRAD TO F15? DO THIS FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS BUT NEVER >> >ON UPDATES >> > >> >I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING >> >FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START >> >IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS >> >> My opinion: >> >> You know what was wrong, sir - you put on your 20 servers Fedora - free >> software. And that means that you can't get personal support, because most >> of real developers are employees of Redhat. >> Have you notice that they use Fedora like a toy, to play with, to test a >> new ideas, to try new things on it. Developers do not count it like >> anything serious - it is a toy for them. Today they decided that upstart >> is wrong and they need systemd, tomorrow they can change their mind, they >> going to implement btrfs soon. Fedora is a test toy. Do not expect any >> respect for the long time use. And that is why linux is not so popular - >> it has always been a TOY and nothing more. Consider to use something >> different for your server or solve your problems by your self. > > The generalization that we(Red Hat associates) see Fedora as a toy is > INSULTING. > Do you know how many of us are spending their free time to get Fedora better? > Do you know how many of us have worked on Fedora(or related things) before > working for Red Hat? > Do you know how big part of the Red Hat work is available in Fedora without > being available in RHEL? > > Yes, we have opinions and we stick to them - most of the time without our > managers even know - because it's smth we do on our own. Speaking personally > everyone can accuse me of not fullfilling some user's wishes (which I'm not > oblided to do) but someone saying that I(we) look at Fedora as a toy is really > hurting a lot of feelings. > > Alexander Kurtakov > >> >> Thanks. What do you think I thought when found that udev was compiled: * Fri May 20 2011 Harald Hoyer <harald@xxxxxxxxxx> 170-1 - version 170 - removed /sbin/start_udev REMOVED /sbin/start_udev - this means that upstart wont be able to start udev without manual tweak. Upstart reads rc.sysinit and there is still "/sbin/start_udev". And also this means that any one who will try to use upstart in Fedora 16 (now rawhide) wont get udev works. What do you think I thought about all of this? I wont be really upset if I'll lose upstart, I can clean systemd as I need, but the idea is wrong. Systemd is just a project, project which may tomorrow be changed, so why all others have to follow. It should be like selinux, which can be easily disabled "selinux=0". That is what I think. -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
