On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:49:56PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > Wait, so "--all" doesn't actually show me all targets, it shows me an > > apparently-arbitrary list of some of the possible targets? > It shows you all targets systemd knows about at that point in time. > The list of thinkable targets you could activate is more ore less > infinite, due to templating and stuff. I am pretty sure people would be > pretty annoyed if we'd dump an infinite number of targets on your screen > if you just type "systemctl". Hmmm. I see what you are saying. And from a technical point of view, that sounds reasonable. But here's what one part of me is hearing: wow, this new systemd adds a whole bunch of complexity to running a machine. That is a not a great selling point. Is there a way to present _something_ more straightforward? > > So, most targets are actually valid for 'isolate'? What if I go to > > bluetooth.target? > Hmm, we could add RefuseManualIsolate= to make uses like that > impossible, while still allowing "start". > /me adds this to his todo list. Maybe the other way around -- postively list the targets which can be manually "isolated"? (I still strongly suggest not using this term, by the way.) Or did I take the FAQ's suggestion that this is what I want instead of runlevels too far? My impression is that in the general state of things, there's really only a small handful of *useful* targets for "isolate". > Well, actually it's not really reliable. You don't see what is activated > via udev (bluetoothd for example), or via dbus, or via cron or via > anything else. It will strictly show you sysv services. Okay, so, *THIS* is a big selling point for systemd. It knows about all that stuff, so it can give me a nice simple list. Put things like that front and center, and you'll have people lining up to switch. (Minor detail that it doesn't, currently, give you that nice simple list.) > If you are looking for something 1:1 eqivalent, then just use "systemadm" > and click on "multi-user.target" and you can click through the services it > will pull in. That is something like a 1:500 equivalent. > Or alternatively, use something like this: > systemctl show -p "Wants" multi-user.target Ok, cool, that's definitely a start. Can you put this in the FAQ? Does it recurse? It'd be nice to have it in a nice list, too. The other direction is useful as well. "When does gpm get started?" is just "sbin/chkconfig --list gpm". > > > Can I get that with systemd? > Well, we could add something that would allow you to calculate a > transaction without actually executing this. This will give you a lot > more than chkconfig ever did, as it would take into consideration what > is already running, and more than just services that are started on > boot-up, and the system state > /me adds that to his todo list. That would be awesome. Thanks. Again, this stuff should be front-and-center. On the todo list: it should be able to show you the change from the current state, and the change from nothing running at all. > But don't expect this right-away, this is not completely trivial to > implement. Trust me, thinking that any of this is trivial is not a problem I am having. -- Matthew Miller <mattdm@xxxxxxxxxx> Senior Systems Architect -- Instructional & Research Computing Services Harvard School of Engineering & Applied Sciences -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
