=================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2010-07-13) =================================== Meeting started by nirik at 19:30:01 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-07-13/fesco.2010-07-13-19.30.log.html Meeting summary --------------- * init process (nirik, 19:30:01) * mclasen is unable to attend today, and will be out the next 2 weeks as well. ;( (nirik, 19:30:28) * #351 Create a policy for updates - status report on implementation (nirik, 19:32:48) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bodhi (nirik, 19:33:26) * #382 Implementing Stable Release Vision (nirik, 19:37:43) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stable_release_updates_vision_implementation_ideas#Stable_releases_should_provide_a_consistent_user_experience_throughout_the_lifecycle.2C_and_only_fix_bugs_and_security_issues (nirik, 19:39:23) * #387 compile list of supported CPUs and reacto to recent loss of support for Geode LX on F13 (nirik, 19:50:06) * AGREED: xo 1.0 should be added to release critera and tested for the next cycle. (nirik, 19:57:19) * #416 Set EOL Date For Fedora 12 (nirik, 19:58:45) * AGREED: 29th is fine for f12 EOL. (nirik, 20:04:02) * #418 Packager jgarzik violated Fedora Packaging (Review) Policy (nirik, 20:04:16) * AGREED: no sanctions at this time (nirik, 20:09:55) * #409 Feature Request: GNUstep (nirik, 20:11:36) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/GNUstep (nirik, 20:12:24) * AGREED: defer for another week for more info. (nirik, 20:16:16) * #413 F14Feature: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Go_Programming (nirik, 20:16:20) * AGREED: This feature is approved (nirik, 20:20:15) * #419 F14Feature: DebugpythonStacks - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DebugPythonStacks (nirik, 20:20:30) * AGREED: This feature is approved (nirik, 20:22:36) * #420 F14Feature: EC2 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EC2 (nirik, 20:23:08) * AGREED: This feature is approved (nirik, 20:28:22) * #421 F14Feature: Gdbindex - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GdbIndex (nirik, 20:28:41) * AGREED: This Feature is approved. (nirik, 20:32:26) * #422 F14Feature: Gnome3 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome3 (nirik, 20:33:51) * AGREED: This Feature is approved. (nirik, 20:40:50) * #423 F14Feature: GoldLinkerDefault - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GoldLinkerDefault (nirik, 20:41:03) * LINK: http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11805 is the prelink issue (mclasen, 20:44:54) * AGREED: defer and ask for more info on this feature. (nirik, 20:48:52) * #424 F14Feature: netbeans 6.9 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetBeans_6.9 (nirik, 20:49:08) * AGREED: This Feature is approved. (nirik, 20:53:31) * #425 F14Feature: OpenSCAP - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OpenSCAP (nirik, 20:53:41) * AGREED: This Feature is approved. (nirik, 20:56:34) * #426 F14Feature: Rakudo Star - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Rakudo_Star (nirik, 20:56:56) * AGREED: Feature is approved. (nirik, 21:01:46) * #427 F14Feature: Spice - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Spice (nirik, 21:01:58) * AGREED: This Feature is approved. (nirik, 21:08:32) * FES tickets roundup. (nirik, 21:08:40) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-engineering-services/report/6 (nirik, 21:09:01) * Open Floor (nirik, 21:14:32) Meeting ended at 21:25:21 UTC -- 19:30:01 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2010-07-13) 19:30:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul 13 19:30:01 2010 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:30:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:30:01 <nirik> #meetingname fesco 19:30:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 19:30:01 <nirik> #chair mclasen notting nirik SMParrish kylem ajax pjones cwickert mjg59 19:30:01 <nirik> #topic init process 19:30:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish ajax cwickert kylem mclasen mjg59 nirik notting pjones 19:30:06 <mjg59> Afternoon 19:30:11 <kylem> evening. 19:30:18 <pjones> night. 19:30:28 <nirik> #info mclasen is unable to attend today, and will be out the next 2 weeks as well. ;( 19:30:31 <ajax> i reject your classist linear notion of time 19:30:43 <ajax> on that note, i'll be gone next week as well. 19:31:02 <notting> as will i! 19:31:52 <nirik> ok. 19:31:53 * cwickert is here 19:32:05 <smparrish> afternoon all 19:32:37 <nirik> ok, lets go ahead and get started I guess... 19:32:48 <nirik> #topic #351 Create a policy for updates - status report on implementation 19:32:49 <nirik> .fesco 351 19:32:50 <zodbot> nirik: #351 (Create a policy for updates) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/351 19:33:07 <nirik> lmacken wrote up some bodhi karma stuff 19:33:26 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bodhi 19:33:38 <nirik> jlaska: any new news on autoqa? 19:33:46 <kylem> sorry, i didn't get around to writing up my bit this week. :\ 19:33:50 <nirik> do we wish to adjust the current karma settings? or leave them as-is for now? 19:34:00 * lmacken will also be pushing out a new bodhi update today, so last-minute changes are welcome 19:34:09 <lmacken> I'll be disabling the critpath karma requirements for EPEL as well 19:34:20 * nirik was just going to ask about that. 19:34:29 <lmacken> I'll also link up to the new bodhi/package acceptance docs, and make them obvious 19:35:19 <nirik> lmacken: so the only bodhi change not yet in is the enforcing 1 week in testing? or is that set now too? 19:35:59 <lmacken> nirik: that has yet to be implemented, but I'll give it a hard look today. 19:36:06 <nirik> ok. 19:36:26 <nirik> so, any adjustments wished for by fesco folks at the current time? or shall we move on? 19:37:03 <ajax> i'm still looking at bocheca's proposal, but nothing for right now 19:37:03 * nirik will move on in a minute if no one speaks up. 19:37:26 <nirik> yeah. 19:37:40 * kylem also, moving on is ok with me. 19:37:40 <nirik> ok, moving on to the next / related ticket: 19:37:43 <nirik> #topic #382 Implementing Stable Release Vision 19:37:43 <nirik> .fesco 382 19:37:44 <zodbot> nirik: #382 (Implementing Stable Release Vision) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/382 19:38:00 <mjg59> I've added some notes for the exception process 19:38:03 <nirik> lets go over each. 19:38:14 <nirik> mjg59: where? to the wiki page? 19:38:17 <mjg59> Yup 19:39:23 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stable_release_updates_vision_implementation_ideas#Stable_releases_should_provide_a_consistent_user_experience_throughout_the_lifecycle.2C_and_only_fix_bugs_and_security_issues 19:39:26 <nirik> (what a link) 19:40:05 <jlaska> nirik: sorry, just saw this irc ping about autoqa ... since I missed the #topic, I can reply in the minutes on devel@ 19:40:19 <nirik> jlaska: ok, no worries. 19:40:58 <cwickert> I still consider this a big mistake. by *only* fixing bugs and security issues we abandon features, and this is one thing why many people use Fedora 19:41:09 <nirik> mjg59: those both look reasonable to me... what about 'leaf packages (where nothing depends on that package) where upstream fixes bugs and adds features in a mix"? 19:41:16 <jlaska> nirik: quick version, looking to have just the depcheck test running by F14-Alpha ... and several additional tests/enforcing tests online by F14-Beta 19:41:25 <nirik> jlaska: cool! 19:41:37 <mjg59> cwickert: You're free to take that up with the board 19:41:45 <ajax> cwickert: rawhide is -> that way. 19:42:13 <cwickert> if we have a separate feature channel, I'm fine with that, but we must make sure that the early adapters that are our target audience still have what they like most about fedora 19:42:21 <drago01> someday we will have KojiRepos or whatever they are supposed to be called .... 19:42:29 <smparrish> cwickert: I agree 19:42:38 <mjg59> I agree that it'd be desirable to make it easy for people to obtain new feature releases without having to track rawhide all the time 19:42:42 <pjones> our task isn't to decide that, but rather to implement the board's vision. 19:43:01 <nirik> I think some upstreams don't release in a way that fits 'only bugfix/security'... so we need some way to handle them... 19:43:15 <cwickert> I think if the board is doing something wrong, it is on us to say there is something going wrong 19:43:18 * nirik nods. So, perhaps we should ask the board to clarify that. 19:43:27 <cwickert> anyway, I will write to the board list 19:44:07 <nirik> mjg59: thanks for working on that... 19:44:14 <nirik> lets go over the other assignments? 19:44:17 <nirik> notting to work on Fedora 14: Document this stance in maintainer docs and announce to maintainers the new docs. 19:44:26 <mjg59> nirik: I suspect that almost all code we ship (given a support cycle of 13 months) will either (a) not have a security hole, because it was introduced later or (b) can have the patch backported without trouble 19:44:29 <notting> nirik: not done yet. started, but not finished enough to be a postable draft 19:44:37 <nirik> notting: ok. 19:44:39 <nirik> SMParrish to work on Fedora 14: metrics on how many updates each branch gets including rawhide? 19:45:08 <smparrish> nirik: got some numbers should have a draft ready to post tomorrow. Full plate this past week 19:45:47 <nirik> mjg59: perhaps. I personally wonder about the calibre package I maintain... they release about 1 to 2 times a week. It's a mix of bugfixes and new features. Do I only push the one at f13 release and never again until f14? thats a lot of change and a very stagnet f13 one. 19:45:52 <nirik> smparrish: cool. 19:45:59 <nirik> nirik to work on Fedora 14: Some way to document failures to quality and consistency so we can learn from them, and see that the incidence is decreasing. 19:46:10 <nirik> I created: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Lessons 19:46:25 <nirik> please do add updates issues you know about from the past. I was going to ask QA folks to add as well. 19:46:37 <nirik> kylem to work on Fedora 14: Have an updates-features optional repository. 19:47:17 <notting> nirik: apparently there was something about packagekit & selinux recently (see the list) 19:47:22 <cwickert> nirik: good work, but you forgot the famous update of dbus, that broke packagekit 19:47:32 <kylem> unfortunately, i didn't have a chance to write this up yet. (been busy every night this last week) 19:47:48 <nirik> cwickert: yes, I hadn't had a chance to add it yet. 19:47:57 <nirik> notting: yeah, saw that one... will add. 19:48:09 <nirik> kylem: yeah, no worries. 19:48:40 <nirik> ok, so thats an update... shall we just keep working for another week, and go from there? 19:48:47 <nirik> anything more we wish to do right now on it? 19:49:35 <nirik> ok, then I guess move on? 19:49:49 * nirik waits for yells then moves on 19:50:02 * mclasen comes in late 19:50:06 <nirik> #topic #387 compile list of supported CPUs and reacto to recent loss of support for Geode LX on F13 19:50:06 <nirik> .fesco 387 19:50:08 <zodbot> nirik: #387 (compile list of supported CPUs and react to recent loss of support for Geode LX on F13) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/387 19:50:11 <nirik> welcome mclasen 19:50:18 <nirik> so, glibc is fixed in f13 here. 19:50:32 * cwickert cheers 19:50:33 <kylem> i mailed the binutils list, and got some response from hjlu asking me to make some modifications, which i've done this afternoon. 19:50:48 <kylem> nobody has screamed yet though. 19:51:02 <cjb> hurrah. thanks, kylem! 19:51:11 <nirik> kylem: looks like the glibc patch was applied too... 19:51:18 <kylem> great. 19:51:24 <kylem> hopefully this won't be a problem now or in the future then. 19:51:26 <kylem> :) 19:51:41 <nirik> ok, so for f14+ we say this continues to be supported? 19:51:44 <mjg59> Phew 19:51:48 <mjg59> nirik: I think so 19:52:02 <mjg59> cjb: If this breaks before f14, can you scream at us? 19:52:07 * nirik is fine with that. Can we have votes to that effect? 19:52:08 <smparrish> nirik: Support should continue 19:52:09 <ajax> kylem: thanks for working on this. 19:52:12 <nirik> do we need a release test? 19:52:24 <cwickert> yes, I think we should test it 19:52:26 <mjg59> If someone wants to boot on an XO, that's be nice 19:52:44 <cwickert> I think it is a perfect legitimate test case 19:53:37 <nirik> ok, can someone mail the test list asking to add a test case for this? 19:53:38 <ajax> remind me exactly which subarch we're promising here? geode lx? 19:53:43 <nirik> yeah. 19:53:43 <notting> right, but we don't have a budge for 'getting fedora QE specific hardware' 19:54:02 * nirik has a olpc here... I can test it if noone else is able. 19:54:06 <mclasen> don't we have a few olpc machines floating around ? 19:54:14 <kylem> i've got one now, thanks to cjb. 19:54:15 * cwickert has two 19:54:51 <cwickert> I will test until next week and then report back, ok? 19:54:52 <nirik> heck, I can stick mine up on the net and make it a test machine with packager access probibly. 19:55:06 <cjb> sounds like we're in fine shape 19:55:13 <nirik> the thing is that we want there to be a test of this as part of the release criteria, so we don't forget it right before f14. 19:55:30 <cwickert> +1 for being a release criteria 19:55:37 <smparrish> +1 19:55:37 <nirik> +1 here as well. 19:55:43 <cjb> yep. do you want to add it to the release criteria, and put me down as someone willing to make sure the testing happens? 19:55:48 <cjb> (even if I just poke someone else to do it) 19:55:48 <ajax> +1 geode lx is a release criteria 19:56:03 <nirik> cjb: can you mail the test list asking for that? I'm not sure off hand where it goes, but they can help you add it there. 19:56:08 * notting would narrow it even more to 'XO 1.0 is a release criteria' 19:56:10 <pjones> I agree, +1 19:56:16 <notting> cjb: i'm assuming 1.5/1.75/etc. all are fine 19:56:21 <cwickert> +1 to notting 19:56:22 <cjb> notting: yes 19:56:27 <pjones> (but I do prefer notting's language) 19:57:16 <smparrish> cjb: 1.75 is still a via chip or is that going arm? 19:57:19 <nirik> #agreed xo 1.0 should be added to release critera and tested for the next cycle. 19:57:22 <cjb> smparrish: arm 19:57:35 <notting> cjb: oh, so 1.75 *doesn't* actually work in released fedora. heh. 19:57:37 * nirik used nottings wording... any objections? 19:57:50 <kylem> sounds good to me. 19:57:51 <nirik> notting: f12 is available... thats a released fedora. ;) 19:58:22 <nirik> speaking of f12... shall we move on to our next topic? 19:58:34 <cwickert> yes please 19:58:42 <nirik> Thanks for all the work on this cjb / kylem 19:58:45 <nirik> #topic #416 Set EOL Date For Fedora 12 19:58:46 <nirik> .fesco 416 19:58:47 <zodbot> nirik: #416 (Set EOL Date For Fedora 12) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/416 19:58:58 <cjb> (thanks everyone!) 19:59:14 <pjones> I say we EOL it tomorrow. 19:59:20 <cwickert> +1 19:59:20 <nirik> not sure eol on a monday is good... 19:59:21 <pjones> too soon? 19:59:32 <cwickert> F13 is fine, who cares about F12? 20:00:20 <pjones> nirik: why not? 20:00:34 <kylem> i never could get the hang of mondays. 20:00:35 <pjones> it's not like a release; there's not a giant chance for something to go wrong. 20:00:41 * nirik shrugs. I guess it doesn't matter, unless rel-eng has a pref 20:00:50 <nirik> so why not that friday? 20:00:59 <nirik> I guess if there had to be a post eol update push. 20:01:46 <kylem> i'd suggest we postpone it an entire week to avoid the holiday. 20:02:02 <kylem> what's one week, and it saves any suprises from people taking long(er) weekends and such. 20:02:14 <pjones> kylem: that's what the ticket suggests... 20:02:20 <mjg59> Yeah, seems fine 20:02:37 <nirik> isn't the 29th just before the holiday tho? 20:02:48 <pjones> 29th is just after. 20:02:51 <notting> depends on which holiday you're referring to 20:03:05 * cwickert wonders who cares about american holidays anyway 20:03:09 <pjones> thanksgiving is the 25th 20:03:18 <nirik> oh, right. 20:03:19 <kylem> oh. i was just assuming. 20:03:27 <nirik> ok, 29th is fine with me. 20:03:31 <kylem> my thanksgiving is in october, tyvm. :) 20:03:37 <nirik> votes? 20:03:46 <cwickert> +1 for 29th 20:03:49 <pjones> +1 20:03:51 <mclasen> +1 20:03:52 <smparrish> +1 20:03:52 <notting> sure, why not. +1 20:04:02 <nirik> #agreed 29th is fine for f12 EOL. 20:04:16 <nirik> #topic #418 Packager jgarzik violated Fedora Packaging (Review) Policy 20:04:17 <nirik> .fesco 418 20:04:18 <zodbot> nirik: #418 (Packager jgarzik violated Fedora Packaging (Review) Policy) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/418 20:04:18 <kylem> +1 20:04:43 <nirik> This is requesting censure of someone who closed merge reviews... 20:04:47 <pjones> I say we tar and feather him. 20:05:09 <notting> nirik: censure beyond the already-happened 'don't do that!'? 20:05:14 <nirik> I personally don't think censure is a good idea in this case. He's been educated... 20:05:41 <nirik> notting: yes, the ticket requests we "downgrade jgarzik's permissions in Red Hat Bugzilla for Fedora component" 20:06:10 <pjones> that's overkill. he did something wrong, he's been told not to do it again. let's not pull out the big guns unless he keeps doing it. 20:06:10 * notting votes -1 on the princple that there are other people that i would do that to well before we get to jgarzik 20:06:18 <pjones> notting: no kidding 20:06:36 <kylem> i'm just going to -1 right off the bat; this is ridiculous. if i could whine to fesco to nuke people's privs every time they annoyed me... 20:06:52 * pjones is -1 as well 20:06:54 <mjg59> I think his behaviour was unhelpful, his immediate action unfortunate and ideally we would educate people better 20:07:09 <smparrish> I would also say -1 on censure, he didn't know, he's been educated and it wont happen again 20:07:16 <mjg59> But if people who've been involved in the project for years don't know all of our policies I see that as our problem rather than their's 20:07:19 <nirik> right. -1 from me as well... is there some way we can communicate better to people moving forward? 20:07:23 <mjg59> And yeah, -1 20:07:35 <kylem> mjg59, agreed. he was certainly being a nuisance, but that's about it unless he repeats this in the future. 20:08:09 <nirik> I did update the wiki links to the cached review tracker thing thats much better than the raw reports he was looking at. 20:08:19 <nirik> and fired off a merge review discussion. 20:08:33 <mjg59> Yeah, that ought to help avoid this in future 20:08:34 <cwickert> I think many RH people need better education, but I don't think that jgarzik wanted to do something bad 20:08:42 <kylem> i was certainly extremely suprised to see traffic in my bugzilla folder about the kernel merge review. 8) 20:08:46 <mclasen> the merge reviews could probably do with an independent discussion 20:08:54 <cwickert> so -1 to any sanctions against jgarzik 20:09:22 <ajax> -1 to sanctioning jgarzik for all the reasons mentioned 20:09:27 <pjones> mclasen: indeed. 20:09:29 <nirik> mclasen: yeah. 20:09:54 <pjones> there's certainly a lot of sentiment from RH employees who have been maintaining these packages for some time that they're a giant waste of time. 20:09:55 <nirik> #agreed no sanctions at this time 20:10:32 <nirik> there's all kinds of issues with them... but thats no reason to close them IMHO. 20:10:49 <nirik> anyhow, we can have another discussion about them sometime. 20:10:51 <notting> i would say 'that's no reason to randomly and unilaterally close them without discussion' 20:11:11 <nirik> shall we move on to the pile-o-feature-fun(tm) now? 20:11:15 <mjg59> Sure 20:11:18 <notting> pjones: not sure they've been active enough to actually waste time 20:11:33 <pjones> notting: fair enough 20:11:36 <nirik> #topic #409 Feature Request: GNUstep 20:11:37 <nirik> .fesco 409 20:11:38 <zodbot> nirik: #409 (Feature Request: GNUstep) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/409 20:11:44 <nirik> we had some questions here. Did they get answered? 20:12:24 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/GNUstep 20:13:10 <mjg59> gnustep-back isn't packaged 20:13:21 <notting> it's in review, iirc 20:13:34 <mjg59> Everything else in the list has been in Fedora since F10 20:13:34 <notting> 476056 20:14:14 <nirik> I thought I saw a few more too under review. 20:14:36 <nirik> oh, those were EL-6 branch requests. 20:14:42 <mjg59> Other than that, I think there's no benefit in mentioning Cocoa at all in the release note, but no objection otherwise 20:15:12 <cwickert> maybe we should give the feature owner another week to clarify? 20:15:28 <mjg59> I'll follow up 20:15:52 <nirik> ok. so defer again? 20:16:09 <mjg59> Yeah 20:16:16 <nirik> #agreed defer for another week for more info. 20:16:20 <nirik> #topic #413 F14Feature: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Go_Programming 20:16:23 <nirik> .fesco 413 20:16:24 <zodbot> nirik: #413 (F14Feature: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Go_Programming) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/413 20:16:25 <mjg59> Huh. Ok, the absence of gnustep-back seems to imply that gnustep can't actually *draw* anything under X right now 20:16:29 <nirik> we also had questions here. 20:16:32 <notting> mjg59: it was just approved 20:17:17 <nirik> I don't see any reply from the feature owner tho. 20:17:36 <nirik> would someone take the task to contact them over the next week and we can revisit this one again too? 20:17:48 <notting> well, he edited the feature page 20:17:56 <nirik> oh, I didn't see that... 20:17:59 <notting> and dropped gcc-go 20:18:34 <notting> at least, dropped it from 'scope' 20:18:41 <nirik> ah, ok. 20:18:59 <nirik> yeah, so with that scope are we ok with the feature? 20:19:37 * notting is ok. +1 20:19:47 <pjones> sure, why not? +1 20:19:49 * nirik is too... +1 20:19:56 <cwickert> ok, +1 20:19:58 <smparrish> works for me +1 20:19:59 <kylem> i'm fine with it. +1. 20:20:12 <mclasen> +1 20:20:15 <kylem> (really low impact to the rest of the distro, and it's kind of cool imho. :) 20:20:15 <nirik> #agreed This feature is approved 20:20:21 * cwickert thinks, we should also have some go packages, but anyway... 20:20:30 <nirik> #topic #419 F14Feature: DebugpythonStacks - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DebugPythonStacks 20:20:30 <nirik> .fesco 419 20:20:31 <zodbot> nirik: #419 (F14Feature: DebugpythonStacks - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DebugPythonStacks) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/419 20:20:39 <cwickert> strong +1 20:20:48 <pjones> very definitely +1 20:21:18 <notting> tl;dr. +1? 20:21:25 <nirik> +1 here as well... good work/news for people who are choosing a development platform. ;) 20:21:35 <smparrish> +1 20:21:47 <cwickert> notting: ? 20:22:10 <notting> cwickert: don't mind me. joking about the length of the feature page. 20:22:16 <ajax> niiice. +1 20:22:16 <cwickert> ah 20:22:36 <nirik> #agreed This feature is approved 20:22:39 <mjg59> +1 20:22:43 <cwickert> notting: the feature page proves he is really working on it 20:22:53 <kylem> sounds good. +1. 20:23:08 <nirik> #topic #420 F14Feature: EC2 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EC2 20:23:08 <nirik> .fesco 420 20:23:09 <zodbot> nirik: #420 (F14Feature: EC2 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EC2) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/420 20:23:55 <notting> does this require pvgrub? 20:24:07 <jforbes> notting: Yes, but no 20:24:19 <ajax> the only thing that was sticky about this before was the requirement to use some non-free tool to publish the image. 20:24:20 <jforbes> notting: not required, but pvgrub is public now, so it will be used 20:24:21 <nirik> so, this would also be added to release criteria? 20:24:49 <jforbes> euca2ools is free and available already 20:25:03 <notting> jforbes: any concerns about weird compatiblity with whatever xen host ec2 is? 20:25:05 <nirik> also, might be nice to make sure we also retire old releases on EOL? 20:25:22 <ajax> i'm not sure what retiring them wins us 20:25:27 <kylem> notting, already dealt with. we had to ok a kernel patch because their xen is ancient. 20:25:38 <jforbes> notting: only concern has already been addressed with the kernel patch included in F13 and newer kernels 20:25:48 <nirik> ajax: a reduction in the number of people who come into #fedora and ask for help with a F8 ec2 image? 20:26:08 <notting> does retiring them from ec2 actively break people using them? 20:26:12 <jforbes> nirik: we have no control over the F8 images, which is why we are publishing them ourselves now 20:26:35 <mclasen> taking control certainly sounds like the right thing to do 20:26:47 <nirik> jforbes: yeah, just saying... if we push f14 at f14 release, can we eol/unpush it at f16+1month? 20:26:53 <jforbes> notting: not if they user persistant storage, but realistically people will probably make their own images based on ours 20:27:13 <nirik> anyhow, I guess thats a side topic. 20:27:18 <jforbes> nirik: we can, but that wont stop people who already copied it into their own 20:27:29 <nirik> +1 for this feature, it's something we should tout and is overdue. ;) 20:27:37 <nirik> jforbes: sure, understood. 20:27:52 <pjones> likewise, +1 20:27:57 <notting> +1 20:27:59 <smparrish> +1 20:28:03 <ajax> +1 20:28:05 <mclasen> +1 as well 20:28:07 <kylem> +1. 20:28:19 <kylem> thanks jforbes. 20:28:22 <nirik> #agreed This feature is approved 20:28:41 <nirik> #topic #421 F14Feature: Gdbindex - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GdbIndex 20:28:41 <nirik> .fesco 421 20:28:42 <zodbot> nirik: #421 (F14Feature: Gdbindex - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GdbIndex) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/421 20:29:24 <notting> oof 20:29:31 <notting> this looks like it requires a mass rebuild to be most useful 20:29:37 <nirik> is this going to affect our friend abrt? 20:29:50 <ajax> yeah, that's my only real beef with it. i'm totally in favor of the feature itself though. 20:29:52 <mclasen> that was going to be my question: mass rebuild ? 20:29:53 <nirik> yeah, mass rebuild ugh. 20:30:00 <pjones> this sounds nice, but ugh. 20:30:06 <tromey> without a rebuild, it just means that things work like today 20:30:18 * cwickert thinkgs that only a feature with a mass rebuild is a good feature ;) 20:30:28 <ajax> we're starting to pile up a few things that "might be nicer" if there were a mass rebuild. 20:30:34 <nirik> yeah. 20:30:44 <ajax> let's consider the feature on its own merits, and then consider mass rebuild after feature freeze 20:30:49 <pjones> ajax: you're suggesting maybe we should get them all in and then do a rebuild? 20:30:50 * nirik nods. 20:31:06 * notting is +1 to the idea of the feature. faster gdb == good. 20:31:16 <nirik> I am +1 for this feature, it speeds things up and that sounds fine to me. ;) 20:31:19 <drago01> back to the old one mass rebuild per release ;) 20:31:31 <drago01> (yes isn't true but it felt like that for a while) 20:31:31 * cwickert doesn't care about a mass rebuild and likes a faster gdb, so +1 20:31:32 <mjg59> +1 I guess 20:31:33 <ajax> and this on its own is definitely +1 for me, gdb attaching to X takes entire _seconds_ and that's just lame. 20:31:47 <smparrish> +1 for faster debugging 20:32:23 <pjones> yeah, I'm definitely +1 on at least implementing it. 20:32:26 <nirik> #agreed This Feature is approved. 20:32:32 <nirik> thanks tromey 20:32:35 <kylem> should we side bar and discuss a rebuild? +1. 20:32:44 <ajax> kylem: not yet. 20:32:52 <tromey> thanks all, I'm going to push the gdb patches now :) 20:32:57 <nirik> kylem: I would say lets wait until our full feature list is done... 20:32:57 <ajax> GoldLinkerDefault is still relevant to that decision 20:33:05 <mclasen> do we need to ask rel-eng about scheduling a mass rebuild ? 20:33:06 <tromey> (upstream I mean) 20:33:08 * nirik notes we have more features for next week. 20:33:18 * mclasen has no idea how much preparation that requires 20:33:21 <kylem> fair. 20:33:31 <nirik> tromey: sounds good. ;) Might drop a heads up to the devel list too... in case there are any regressions? 20:33:42 <tromey> will do 20:33:51 <nirik> #topic #422 F14Feature: Gnome3 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome3 20:33:52 <nirik> .fesco 422 20:33:53 <zodbot> nirik: #422 (F14Feature: Gnome3 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome3) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/422 20:34:48 <nirik> can you manually choose to use 'gnome classic' ? 20:35:10 <nirik> even if your hardware works with gnome3? 20:35:21 <mclasen> details of fallback have not been worked out 20:35:22 <drago01> why would you want that? 20:35:26 <ajax> the desktop-effects capplet will still exist, i believe 20:35:36 <mclasen> but yes, I assume you will be able to configure a session with the panel and metacity 20:35:38 <ajax> fallback is a hard problem in general. 20:36:02 <nirik> well, I am not a gnome user, but I predict I will get a bunch of people asking about how to do that in #fedora who just don't like gnome-shell 20:36:05 <mclasen> and we might even ship a ready-made session for it 20:36:06 <drago01> well we do have some code for that (the your hardware/driver sucks nag in desktop-effects) 20:36:13 <ajax> but at least from the X side we'll try to make it so the compositor will refuse to start rather than hang. 20:36:15 <notting> nirik: 1) wait for automatic fallback in case of failure to be written 2) find the condition it uses 3) make that condition fail always on your system 20:37:11 <nirik> ok... just curious. 20:37:19 <drago01> notting: ... 20:37:37 <notting> drago01: not entirely serious. 20:37:38 <nirik> it would be nice if it was possible without pain and torment, IMHO... 20:38:05 <mclasen> any more questions on it ? things are a little in flux atm, with transition from gtk2 to gtk3, I hope that things stabilize a bit before the end of the week 20:38:38 * notting is in favor. +1 20:38:44 <cwickert> I would like a dialog: Do you want the new Gnome shell or the classic gnome desktop? 20:38:50 <drago01> no 20:38:52 <nirik> +1 here. This is the way upstream is going and people expect to see gnome3 soon. ;) 20:39:10 * nirik doesn't care if it's a setting or something, just that it be possible. 20:39:22 <ajax> +1 to acceptance. fallback session seems like the reasonable approach. 20:39:23 <cwickert> ether way, +1 20:39:23 <drago01> a nag dialig is the wrong way to do it 20:39:24 <nirik> a dialog would confuse people who know nothing of the choices. 20:39:52 <pjones> I'm +1 , but I would really like some way to fall back. 20:40:43 <ajax> that's 5 20:40:50 <nirik> #agreed This Feature is approved. 20:40:53 * mclasen abstains 20:41:03 <nirik> #topic #423 F14Feature: GoldLinkerDefault - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GoldLinkerDefault 20:41:03 <nirik> .fesco 423 20:41:04 <zodbot> nirik: #423 (F14Feature: GoldLinkerDefault - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GoldLinkerDefault) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/423 20:41:23 <pjones> I just know this is going to break all my packages :) 20:42:03 <nirik> +1 for this, as I was expecting it in f13... 20:42:11 <ajax> given the ld.bfd escape hatch, i'm fine with this. 20:42:14 <nirik> as for mass rebuild, this is another 'nice to mass rebuild for' right? 20:42:20 <pjones> ajax: yeah. 20:42:23 <mjg59> Yeah 20:42:32 <pjones> "for everything except glibc and the kernel" seems a bit short-sighted, but it's also not a real requirement. 20:42:33 <ajax> do we still have the list from f13 of everything that ftbfs'd with --no-add-needed? 20:42:33 * mclasen had 2 questions on this 20:42:41 <mclasen> 1. will we drop prelink at the same time ? 20:42:43 <nirik> perhaps we could get the items that would be nice to mass rebuild for in, and then get mdomsch to run a mass rebuild test? 20:42:45 <notting> why does the kernel and glibc need to still use the old one? 20:42:51 <mclasen> 2. why can't glibs and kernel use gold ? 20:43:00 <ajax> notting: gold linker script support isn't quite as macho as binutils' 20:43:09 <nirik> ajax: yeah, there is a blocker bug still... not sure how much is still on it. 20:43:18 <ajax> which is also why it's going to break all of pjones' packages 20:43:18 <drago01> 1. huh? does it affect runtime linking at all? 20:43:32 <ajax> grub has fun linker scripts too 20:43:36 <ajax> but most things do not 20:43:37 <drago01> (as in in a noticeable way) 20:43:37 <pjones> as does gnu-efi 20:43:41 <mclasen> there's a bug reference somewhere from the feature page that states that gold and prelink are incompatible 20:44:39 <nirik> bonus for going with gold! ;) 20:44:54 <mclasen> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11805 is the prelink issue 20:45:24 <drago01> there is a patch somewhere http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=4713&action=view ( not sure how correct it is or wheter it has been merged) 20:45:26 <nirik> opened just 2 days ago 20:45:38 <drago01> answers my question 20:45:54 <notting> we'd obviously need that fixed. or we drop prelink 20:46:06 <ajax> looks like prelink just fails until that's fixed though. 20:46:16 <ajax> not that it destroys data 20:46:25 * nirik isn't sure prelink is worth it anymore, but we have had that discussion before I think. 20:46:35 <ajax> you and everybody else. 20:46:36 <mclasen> just trying to clarify if 'drop prelink' is within the scope of the feature 20:46:51 <drago01> nim-nim: and no one bothered to provide numbers (in either direction) 20:46:52 <nirik> well, we could defer and ask that specifically? 20:47:00 <drago01> err 20:47:02 <drago01> nirik: ^^ 20:47:08 <drago01> nim-nim: sorry tab fail 20:47:15 <nirik> drago01: prelink also causes fun things like local firefox builds to fail. ;) 20:47:54 <drago01> nirik: you need a faster builder to avoid that :P 20:47:55 <nirik> anyhow? defer and ask for clarification? or vote today? 20:48:11 <mclasen> I put the question on the discussion page 20:48:22 <ajax> defer i think 20:48:24 <mclasen> I thought 20:48:25 <notting> we can defer 20:48:44 <nirik> ok. 20:48:52 <nirik> #agreed defer and ask for more info on this feature. 20:49:08 <nirik> #topic #424 F14Feature: netbeans 6.9 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetBeans_6.9 20:49:08 <nirik> .fesco 424 20:49:09 <zodbot> nirik: #424 (F14Feature: netbeans 6.9 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetBeans_6.9) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/424 20:49:13 <nirik> another fedora, another netbeans. ;) 20:49:30 <notting> at what point do we start drawing a line in the sand here? or is it too late? 20:49:49 <ajax> netwho? 20:49:53 <nirik> it might be too late, since we approved all the others. 20:50:35 <notting> 'See also: Netbeans on the twitter.com' 20:50:57 <nirik> see the NetBeans_6.8 and NetBeans_6.7 and NetBeans_6.5 and NetBeans_6.1 features. 20:50:58 <drago01> so we get a netbeans feature per release? ;) 20:51:04 <nirik> drago01: seems so 20:51:18 <drago01> not sure that it is a bad thing though 20:51:18 <ajax> wow, javafx still exists 20:51:24 <pjones> # Percentage of completion: 40% 20:51:37 <drago01> ajax: with almost no users if any... 20:51:39 <notting> pjones: well upstream is released. apparently there are some package reviews 20:51:47 <nirik> well, we always approved them before on the basis of being good press to note... 20:52:42 <pjones> sure, why not. 20:52:47 <nirik> so, on that basis, weak +1 here... 20:53:05 * mclasen thinks it is good to have outside interest in Fedora features like this 20:53:11 <mclasen> +1 from me 20:53:13 <smparrish> +1 for the press 20:53:14 <ajax> +1 why not 20:53:19 <pjones> I'm +1, but mostly just bored. 20:53:26 <cwickert> +1 20:53:30 <notting> +1, then. 20:53:31 <nirik> #agreed This Feature is approved. 20:53:41 <nirik> #topic #425 F14Feature: OpenSCAP - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OpenSCAP 20:53:41 <nirik> .fesco 425 20:53:42 <zodbot> nirik: #425 (F14Feature: OpenSCAP - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OpenSCAP) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/425 20:54:41 <pjones> hey, acronym land. 20:54:48 <ajax> that's how you know it's secure 20:55:31 <sgrubb> I can talk about this feature if you want any discussion 20:55:31 <pjones> I don't know any reason not to +1 this. 20:55:36 <notting> i'm worried about the % done, but there's nothing bad in the feature itself. +1 20:55:44 <nirik> +1 here... 20:55:50 <smparrish> +1 as well 20:55:59 <pvrabec> there will be new release tomorrow and I will update % done 20:56:22 <ajax> +1, needed for building the tools to actually do this if nothing else 20:56:34 <nirik> #agreed This Feature is approved. 20:56:38 <kylem> +1, but these things are getting tedious. one feature per child. 20:56:39 <mjg59> +1 20:56:43 <kylem> s/child/package/ 20:56:47 <nirik> thanks pvrabec / sgrubb. :) 20:56:56 <nirik> #topic #426 F14Feature: Rakudo Star - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Rakudo_Star 20:56:56 <nirik> .fesco 426 20:56:57 <zodbot> nirik: #426 (F14Feature: Rakudo Star - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Rakudo_Star) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/426 20:57:24 <ajax> isn't that an anime? 20:57:31 <kylem> perl 6. 20:57:37 <nirik> same thing. ;) 20:58:12 <notting> ajax: i thought it was what video killed. 20:58:30 <nirik> cwickert: so, how is this different than what we have now? 20:58:39 <nirik> or this is just a update to a production release? 20:58:42 <drago01> isn't perl 6 supposed to be vaporware? 20:59:03 <cwickert> it is a production release of rakudo, right 20:59:08 <ajax> why is this perl6 better than the others? how do we choose one? 20:59:25 <nirik> ajax: it's the only one that exists so far? 20:59:38 <cwickert> it is the most active one and the one that implements that most of the perl 6 specs 20:59:38 <notting> so, this is 1.0, and therefore better than the prior version of this feature, which was 0.<something>? (essentially) 20:59:43 <nirik> official perl doesn't have a v6 release does it? 20:59:44 <drago01> we have multiple interpreters for different languages too 20:59:49 <ajax> nirik: "There are currently multiple implementation projects of Perl 6 underway, the most actively developed one is Rakudo, which is based on the Parrot virtual machine." 20:59:58 <pjones> so the question is, if another one comes along that's more widely accepted (like an official perl release...), are we going to regret this? 21:00:01 <drago01> nirik: that's the vaporware part 21:00:25 * nirik doesn't see why we would... we could always drop it, or let the "better" one obsolete it or something... 21:00:39 <nirik> or let them be parallel installable and let users choose? 21:00:55 <cwickert> pjones: there is nothing on the horizon, rakudo is likely to become *the* perl 6 21:00:59 * nirik notes it's already in fedora... it was a f13 feature. 21:01:03 * notting is tentatively +1 for touting this as the 'production/1.0/etc' verson. not so sure about having this being an 'every release we have new XXX' feature 21:01:11 <pjones> eh, sure then, +1 21:01:22 <cwickert> and the reason why it is a feature is that there are changes to the current rakudo 21:01:22 <ajax> +1, despite it being perl. 21:01:34 <cwickert> it will no longer require parrot but will be standalone 21:01:34 <nirik> +1 here too 21:01:38 <smparrish> +1 21:01:39 <cwickert> +1 21:01:43 <mjg59> +1 21:01:46 <nirik> #agreed Feature is approved. 21:01:58 <nirik> #topic #427 F14Feature: Spice - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Spice 21:01:58 <nirik> .fesco 427 21:01:59 <cwickert> for the record: the feature owner also is the release manager 21:02:00 <zodbot> nirik: #427 (F14Feature: Spice - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Spice) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/427 21:02:56 <nirik> sad trombone on the lack of libvirt support. 21:03:18 <mclasen> it is not going to be super-polished and impressive in f14 21:03:19 <pjones> I like the scarequoted '"hardware"' 21:03:22 <jforbes> Gotta start somewhere 21:03:26 <mclasen> that will come later 21:03:34 <notting> i can't help but notice '# Spice support needs to be added to the Fedora qemu package ' 21:03:46 <notting> which sounds like a fairly large task for a short sentence 21:03:51 <pjones> mclasen: then what's the point of it being an F14 feature rather than something nicer and shinier in F15? 21:03:53 <mclasen> qemu package maintainers have agreed to carry the patch, afaik 21:03:55 <nirik> +1 anyhow, but even basic libvirt support would be nice, IMHO. 21:03:56 <ajax> qemu upstream is... not especially great at release schedules. 21:04:00 <ajax> notting: ^ 21:04:03 <jforbes> notting: that is pending the 0.13 update. It isn't exactly out of the blue 21:04:19 <mclasen> pjones: if we make it an f15 feature, you'll say 'old hat, was in f14 already'... 21:04:22 <jforbes> notting: We will have 0.13 before feature freeze 21:04:42 <notting> no alexl 21:04:50 <notting> how are we planning on handling the 'windows drivers' bullet point? 21:04:59 <mclasen> alexl: is on vacation, and then on parental leave... 21:05:04 <pjones> mclasen: somebody might, but it won't be me. 21:05:12 <jforbes> notting: I expect the same way we are handling virtio-win now 21:05:19 <jforbes> alt.fedoraproject.org 21:06:11 <notting> mclasen: who's the lucky inheritee? 21:06:48 <jforbes> notting: there are a few people working on it 21:07:27 <nirik> so, votes ? or more info/defer ? or ? 21:07:48 * notting is +1 21:08:00 <ajax> +1 21:08:05 <smparrish> +1 21:08:11 <kylem> +1, cool beans. 21:08:15 <pjones> I guess I'm okay with it, though it seems like we're going to want to put it in relnotes /again/ next release. 21:08:18 <pjones> but meh, +1 21:08:32 <nirik> #agreed This Feature is approved. 21:08:40 <nirik> #topic FES tickets roundup. 21:08:45 <nirik> thanks for the info jforbes 21:08:48 <nirik> mmcgrath: you around? 21:08:51 <drago01> pjones: we could name it "libvirt support for spice" 21:09:01 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-engineering-services/report/6 21:09:25 <nirik> mmcgrath finished a ticket there this morning. We now have: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/ 21:09:43 <mclasen> notting: not sure how they've organized that, but kraxel seems to be doing the other packages now 21:09:45 <nirik> so all the meetings with the same meetingname should show up in the same dir. 21:09:52 <ajax> niiice 21:10:11 <pjones> yeah, that looked pretty nice when I looked at it earlier. 21:10:22 <mmcgrath> hey 21:10:41 <mmcgrath> So really the big workings this week on my end were getting the /teams/ setup 21:10:41 <notting> slick 21:11:03 <mmcgrath> and getting more rawhide broken deps. 21:11:17 <mmcgrath> Actually rawhide's broken deps are in OK shape but there's two packages right nwo that won't build blocking several others from building 21:11:18 <nirik> mmcgrath: so do we have enough tickets for the people we have? do we need more tickets or people? 21:11:53 <mmcgrath> more people. 21:11:56 <mmcgrath> well, here's the roundup on people. 21:12:12 <mmcgrath> we've had a high turnover rate (to be expected) but in the ones that turned over, many of them didn't actually do anything. 21:12:36 <mmcgrath> it was one of those "follow up" "sure, I'll get right on it" "follow up" "sorry was busy last week but have time this week" "follow up" type thing. 21:12:39 <mmcgrath> where no actual work got done. 21:12:57 <mmcgrath> but the people that have done work, they've generally been great at it. Bruno and Jose both come to mind immediately 21:13:03 <mmcgrath> but Bruno's been busy with spin stuff lately. 21:13:20 <mmcgrath> anyway, end of the day we need more dedicated people. I might send another cattle call out this week to devel and see who turns up 21:13:22 <nirik> so, perhaps we should tell those folks who don't have time to try again later and reassign/get new people involved? 21:13:29 * nirik nods. 21:13:41 <mmcgrath> nirik: yeah that's what I've been doing. 21:13:55 <mmcgrath> after a couple of weeks I just ask if they'd like me to remove the FES resume tag for now until they get more time. 21:13:57 <nirik> if you like I can probibly dream up some more easy tickets that just need someone doing them. ;) Perhaps other fesco folks can do likewise. 21:14:21 <nirik> Thanks for the info mmcgrath. 21:14:25 <mmcgrath> A wider range of tickes might be good just because we've had some people show up that are clueless about packaging and lots of the tasks have been packaging oriented. 21:14:29 <mmcgrath> yup yup, that's all I've got 21:14:32 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 21:14:38 * gholms raises hand 21:14:44 <nirik> ok, we have about 4-5 more features for next week, BTW. 21:14:48 <nirik> gholms: go ahead. 21:15:09 <gholms> (I was absent for the EC2 discussion, so a question on that) 21:16:15 <nirik> fire away. 21:16:44 <gholms> To build pvgrub images for EC2 one needs a "block device mapping" feature, which isn't supported in the latest stable version of euca2ools in the repos. Upstream claims to support it in the latest dev builds, but that requires a prerelease python-boto. (...) 21:17:34 <nirik> jforbes: you still around? can you address that? 21:17:47 <gholms> Though I haven't done much thorough testing, this means that we can either build Fedora images using either prerelease euca2ools and prerelease python-boto or we use ec2-ami-tools frpm rpmfusion-nonfree. 21:18:26 <nirik> I think it needs to be prerelease, we can't use rpmfusion stuff in our process. 21:18:28 <gholms> Any recommendations? Both euca2ools and python-boto are in our repos, just not new enough, and I'm hesitant to recommend throwing cvs copies into production. 21:18:30 <jforbes> gholms: read cloud list :) python-boto is pusing towards release 21:18:44 <gholms> jforbes: Ooh, will do. 21:18:45 <rsc> ah...python-boto! 21:18:54 <jforbes> gholms: oh, you were the one who said it 21:18:58 <nirik> Anything else for open floor? 21:19:03 * gholms raises hand... again 21:19:20 <pjones> so the plan is to have newer python-boto then? 21:19:24 <rsc> is anybody here in touch with python-boto folks? 21:19:39 <rsc> because I _will_ _not_ update python-boto to an alpha release... 21:19:49 <nirik> gholms: ask away. ;) 21:19:52 <rsc> upstream is non-responsive to me... 21:19:56 * nirik has no idea on python-boto. 21:19:58 <jforbes> pjones: That would be the plan for euca2ools, but not a requirement for the EC2 feature anyway 21:20:29 <gholms> Since one needs F13 + updates to install on the XO, do we need new install images? 21:21:15 <gholms> So do we use a temporary repo for building EC2 images until python-boto releases again? 21:21:30 <gholms> I'm looking for recommendations, mostly. We can discuss this in detail on the cloud list. 21:21:35 <ajax> gholms: we don't respin install images. unity does though. 21:21:56 <jforbes> gholms: if we want to, though I am not using euca2ools on the F13 images anyway. 21:23:06 * nirik suggests further discussion on cloud list, as I am not up on what python-boto or these tools do/are used for. 21:24:10 <nirik> any other items for open floor? or shall we stick a fork in this meeting? 21:24:52 <ajax> i got nothin' 21:24:58 * gholms hands nirik a fork 21:25:14 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone... and sitting though another long meeting. ;) 21:25:21 <nirik> #endmeeting
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