It is good that you care about the products, but you can't be unaware that doing things like filing that bugzilla entry for that spinner bug halfway into a discussion comes off as very aggressive and uncollaborative? As for designers not having enough time, I would beg to differ about that being the problem here. We been having these branding discussions for at least 3 years now if not more, which I think should be more than enough time for anyone. I been trying to push things along at multiple instances, I even tried setting up a branding working group years ago with various designers in the hope they could find a holistic solution to address the needs in both Fedora and RHEL. For various reasons that effort did not really resolve anything either. What has happened every time, and I definitely deserve the blame for not making sure we kept on this, is that we end up having a flare-up shortly before each release, end up doing something that is doable within that short timeframe, leaving nobody really happy; and then drop the ball waiting for the next flare up at a later release. So if you want to own this problem and ensure we have a proper solution finally that is great, but you have to do it by making sure you speak to Fedora and RHEL stakeholders and ensure there is actual agreement that this resolves our needs for the long term as opposed to be another bandaid for the next release, because I think we both agree there has been enough of those. Christian ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bastien Nocera" <bnocera@xxxxxxxxxx> > To: "Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop" <desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2016 8:51:45 AM > Subject: Re: I asked Hacker News what developers want from a desktop, and this is what they said > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Hi Bastien, > > You seem to be coming at this discussion with the positive attitude of > > Donald > > Trump :) > > I find that highly offensive, smiley or not. > > > I don't think Matthew, myself or anyone else is especially tied to specific > > branding items > > that we currently have, what everyone cares about is the overall branding > > and > > how it plays into our marketing of Fedora to new users. So instead of > > grumpily shouting 'ok, so > > lets just remove that then' try to listen and understand where people are > > coming from and > > then lets find an overall approach here that actually solves our needs. And > > maybe very > > little of the current branding survives such a setup, but lets look at the > > overall picture > > instead of doing what we have ended up doing the last 4 years, which is go > > into the trenches > > and then end up adding random branding to try to avoid thinking about the > > actual goals of > > the request. > > Which is exactly what I'm doing. Neither GNOME upstream, nor GNOME designers > and developers in Fedora were given the opportunity to make holistic design > decisions with regards to branding. > > And I don't like that "grumpy" label either. I care about what the products > I work on look and act, and I'm disconcerted, and bemused when non-GNOME > Fedora participants act as if we don't have a foot in both teams. > > > And the good thing here is that a lot of the upstream GNOME designers are > > working for Red Hat, > > so I am sure that as part of their job they will be able to find acceptable > > solutions for > > both sides. > > Which is what I'm currently working on with them. > > Switch to upstream theme for Plymouth: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1392836 > Spinner theme update: > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98640 > > Details panel changes: > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770593 > and > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=695691 > > Hostname changes as branding: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1392924 (avahi) > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1392925 (systemd for hostnamed) > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1392926 (anaconda) > > We still have to work on the presentation mode, which would be a much better > way to advertise Fedora during presentations (!), and discuss what to do with > those other cases of downstream branding. > _______________________________________________ > desktop mailing list -- desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to desktop-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > _______________________________________________ desktop mailing list -- desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to desktop-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
