On Tue, 2016-09-06 at 22:47 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > One of our interns performed a usability test on Evolution. The > results are at [1] and are highly negative. It seems the users had > difficulty configuring Evolution to use their mail accounts; in > particular, Gmail always rejects your password without any error > message unless you configure Gmail to allow access to "less secure > apps." Hi, while the article says they used GNOME 3.20 and Fedora 24, the screenshot of the password prompt shows a background which was used in Fedora 23. I'm unsure which version they used in reality. The thing is, the Evolution 3.20 has Google's OAuth2 implemented natively, thus what you do when configuring a Google account is: a) File->New->Mail Account b) type your name and email user@xxxxxxxxx c) click Next, the account gets prefilled for you d) click Next and Finish And now, you are not asked for your password, but a window with Google login is opened instead, where you grant access for the Evolution to your Google sources, just like with GOA. It cannot be simpler, I'm afraid, and it uses the OAuth2, thus the secure thing. Nonetheless, when I tried in the real Fedora 24, it turned out that the above works only if users keep checked to use at least the calendar or contacts part from the Google server, otherwise (when both are unchecked by the user), the account asks for a password in the way as on the screenshot. That's a bug, noted, I'll fix it for 3.22. > Users found the interface to be outdated. That's not fair. We want to be close to gtk+ widgets, but it's harder each release of gtk+. We even were rejected recently: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=766773 The stock gtk+ widgets are insufficient as they are for the Evolution use, where folders can have hundreds of thousands messages. > ..., but the Evolution developers have been clear that they > don't want any UI changes. Right, that's true. Nonetheless, the opinion tends to change in the time. Mine for sure. As Rishi said, I'd like to create an alternative UI for the Mail part of the Evolution. A "modern" one. It's a future feature, many background things require changes, thus it's just a plan, an idea, at the moment. I saw mockup for the GNOME Mail. It can get close to it. > We should drop it (without replacement) for F26. I don't agree that > mail clients are expected functionality for new computers in the age > of webmail. You seem to be concentrated on the Mail, but it's only 1/5 of the Evolution. It knows Mail, Contacts, Calendars, Tasks and Memos, all integrated in one application, cooperating together. I know you have separate applications for it, but it's not the same. Like with the Google Mail account at the beginning of this message, if you indicate that you want to use also the Calendar and Contacts from the Google, then you get it for free, with one credentials being entered only, all together, in one step. No need to configure Mail, then Contacts, then Calendar and even Tasks (yes, the Calendar checkbox provides both Google calendars and tasks). You also should not forget of the enterprise usage, like when people need to connect to a Microsoft Exchange server. If you think that the Geary + GNOME Contacts + GNOME Calendar + GNOME Tasks can handle the enterprise usage, then it's great. > And anyone typing Evolution in the overview will still find it, > thanks to the Software search provider. Hmm, application naming is a problem. Either you already know that a certain application does certain things, or you are lost. Would you ever think that "geary" means "mail application"? Similar with the "Evolution", if you want to just look for an application which covers all 5 parts (see above), then the last word you'd search for will be "Evolution", unless you heard about it earlier. I'm not blaming here, I'm just mentioning the fact. In any case, if you (plural 'you') feel that the Evolution doesn't worth it to be pre-installed, then feel free to remove it from the Fedora Workstation pre-installed applications. After all, I've no voice in these decisions. You can always push it back, in case it'll evolve from the late 90's to the 21st century. Bye, Milan -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
