-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 hi I'll add my two cents in here. I'm not a developer, and can't add any solutions, but I can at least make some suggestions. Do we want a distro that highlights what free software can do, and the best free software projects, or are we just another ubuntu? If our goal is to make the user experience as "thought free" as possible, then by all means, install chrome, skype, steam, nvidia and catalyst, and all that good stuff. If our goal is to stand out and be a free software project in as far as this is possible, binary firmware being the exception, then we need to do all we can to push these stubborn hardware companies to stop clinging to their IP, open up their code, and play along with the rest of the world. If indeed the nvidia driver is fantastic, then that company needs to open up it's specs and provide documentation so the foss developers can catch up. I can already here you practical people screaming at me " who cares as long as it just works?" I do. And I'm not alone either. I see posts here saying that "I don't want to include nonfree software, I just want to make the user experience more convenient." Well, to most users, unless they can click on an icon labeled install, and the system just work, whether it's open source or not is of no consequence. Fedora stands on it's principals, and it's one of the few distros to do so. The issues you highlight aren't issues fedora, or linux developers can help. If they could, there would already be an open source nvidia driver that's as good or better than the proprietary one. What we really need is cooperation from the hardware companies, not "we'll give you a driver, but it's closed source" or "we'll give you details if you sign an NDA, because our IP is sacred" It makes me so angry to have linux held back by companies like this. Ok, I've ranted enough lol. I'll shut up no w Thanks Kendell Sent from Fedora GNU/Linux Alex G.S. wrote: >> >> The idea is nice, but it isn't feasible at all. We have a >> better chance of just making the FOSS drivers as performant as >> the proprietary drivers. At least that is somewhat realistic. > > > In the new AMD scenario (unified kernel module for both FOSS and > proprietary drivers) where you have the proprietary blob in > user-space would this be a feasible thing to achieve if they're > using the same kernel module? I think then it's a matter Nvidia > being the real problem here and they need to be pushed to do the > same with the Nouveau project and have a single kernel module and > move the Nvidia blob into user-space. It's extremely frustrating > that Nvidia is basically the only thing keeping X11 around. > > On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Josh Boyer > <jwboyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Alex G.S. >> <alxgrtnstrngl@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> I'm planning on working on this when we're further into the >>>> Wayland transition, as I feel that any work on X11 would be >>>> soon wasted, and I don't want to set my Optimus horses before >>>> the Wayland cart is ready. >>> >>> >>> Having the FOSS and proprietary drivers be mutually exclusive >>> creates a scenario where a user get's the worst of two >>> experiences. >>> >>> The proprietary and FOSS drivers should be able to be installed >>> at the >> same >>> time and loaded when needed depending on the use-case. Ideally >>> the user should default to the FOSS driver and run a GNOME >>> Wayland session. When they play a game from Steam the >>> proprietary drivers should be dynamically loaded as an isolated >>> X11 session similar to what XWayland does today. >> The >>> user should also be able to run apps with the proprietary >>> driver if they wish but the overall desktop should be managed >>> by the FOSS drivers. >> >> This is technically impossible to do, because the kernel only >> allows one driver to drive a piece of hardware. Even if we >> rearchitected the kernel to allow multiple drivers in a >> co-operative manner, it still wouldn't be possible unless the >> proprietary drivers were modified to do this hand-off. The only >> way to achieve what you are suggesting is to unload a FOSS driver >> and load a proprietary driver when you started e.g. Steam. Then >> do the opposite when you exit the game. That is basically a >> tear-down of everything and you might as well reboot. >> >> The idea is nice, but it isn't feasible at all. We have a >> better chance of just making the FOSS drivers as performant as >> the proprietary drivers. At least that is somewhat realistic. >> >> josh -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop >> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVURCTAAoJEGYgJ5/kqBTdszcP/iDmImmRP/wFDEB8XIJqVNaI 8HSTNo0GlTaGdtGTxpYQfybWigYU0JrMV9fk6LGHCHlYRZh0Urhni3ird7rr5tnS yYxV9FJnnZkZtNOigw/aqPG/vAPfkeky/HkE+WLPjskahvzjFY7+Q68+sUlwjMCk nlLT0d16TcFMEqMwTFCo+rSruNyDmUuK4PFZPmYaViRzgC4jJAoMa4rfk8LmFY/N rH5mMi9LA1oQTT6nh4U4yTNIKzerA3nwlAxJ0vC5yTKHk+2PQ9097t+XpFvN8UUB FRbAbke6U1UUfFbahP0RuAcWL/bgwdHZHB/OkCRNMM1Z0JdVG5+znQZqlQ8Bucfy BghmzwBejfI/elwhnKZ+dQX9Xg67FDf1YO2bDKFzx3TdznO4dav2B3PT6XryYykc Y3Az0yT3sVHLJuZFWBcECPNYmMpJFHQBoEd4W2Y7dNj0fm03vgc4W8k5zz+BJSk1 CRiDdCP0Ou331h8lyQcPn1XY5iE2LFVpCscWRHCOo2aGLQ8ATfAZeYfmp2WGTDpS C99q0pEJpeKy+04H0ywM7V9iSIFRpRTxLkDyhOmYa8F3xZ2x3gahh+7LwCjOkhFm 0z2bGm1qQ26XuIt8W7Sv9ov9usNgqnSXpcWqETKzOeWiwCRhk4VZMv/Ts6yFIXQJ wx4TSVtyN2VEUg21JRPo =xRFr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
