Hi Allan! On Fri, 2015-04-24 at 18:33 +0100, Allan Day wrote: > This will largely be determined by whatever decisions are made > upstream in the GNOME project. (Chat is integrated into several key > GNOME modules - such as the shell and the control center - so it's > not > simply a matter of switching packages around.) This isn't true: neither control-center nor gnome-shell depends on Empathy in Fedora 22 (in fact, not a single package on my computer does). I don't think control-center has anything at all to do with chat, does it? gnome-shell used to expect Empathy to be installed, but I believe that changed during 3.15 sometime. So Empathy is really just an application like any other, and doesn't deserve any special protection anymore. gnome-shell used to integrate very well with Empathy, but it's been getting worse over the years. Since 3.8 or so it stopped setting my status to Away when I locked my computer, which I felt was a serious regression. As of 3.16 it has devolved into a mess: notifications of new messages now only work about half the time rather than always (definitely a new bug in F22, perhaps in gnome-shell), and buddy invites often disappear into the void (I think this is a new bug too; perhaps they just get ignored if my status in Away, since they're notifications). Frankly, it was much better in F21 than it is in F22. There are other serious problems with Empathy as well: XMPP or SIP calls regularly fail with not even an error message, just a blank screen. In group XMPP calls, it's pure chance whether I can hear all participants or only one. I think it's absolutely time to remove Empathy from the default install. It requires a significant investment of developer manpower to get it up to an acceptable level of quality for Fedora. Still, I use it every day, because everything else is worse. :( Polari is IRC-only, so it's not even attempting to be a replacement (and it's useless for me; I need Jabber too, and I expect it in the same app). Pidgin looks horrible and it uses the message tray. I think we should just not install any chat client, since we have no reasonable replacement, and let the user decide for himself what to install if one is needed. Michael -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
