-- Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." Ed Howdershelt 1940. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 23:53:42 From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@xxxxxxxxxx> Reply-To: orca@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To: orca@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [orca] Re: Orca's notification messages feature has been rewritten Orca should never freeze up, even in Wayland. If you can reliably reproduce a freeze, please file a bug and attach a full debug.out. Thanks! --joanie On Fri, 2023-07-28 at 00:45 +0100, Harley Richardson wrote: > Hello, > > I'd be interested if there was something in gsettings that allowed you > to do that, there's a lot of hidden stuff that gnome doesn't expose. > While a mouse movement could be done, there comes the issue of Wayland > and if you're doing mouse stuff on Wayland, you could get a situation > where it'll just completely freeze Orca up. That's what can happen if > you left click on Wayland still and the control doesn't have the actions > Orca looks for since the action menu isn't in master or gnome-45from > what I can see. Maybe it could do something keyboard related without > interrupting itself or causing user inconvenience. > > Harley > > On 27/07/2023 19:19, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: > > Hey Harley. > > > > Thanks for testing. I believe this is a gnome thing. And has nothing to > > do with accessibility. Here are my steps to reproduce the behavior > > without Orca running: > > > > 1. On another machine, ssh into the machine where the notifications > > should be displayed. > > > > 2. Send two messages quickly via notify-send. > > > > 3. Do not touch the keyboard or mouse on the machine where the > > notifications should be displayed. > > > > Results: The first message visually pops up and stays on screen. I > > walked away for five minutes or so. When I came back, that first message > > was still showing. Then I started replying to your message and the first > > message immediately disappeared and the second message finally appeared. > > > > My theory is that it is a "feature." Keeping the message on screen until > > the user is presumably viewing it means less likelihood of missing a > > message. That of course is inconvenient for those of us who want our > > notifications immediately. Haven't had time to figure out if this > > configurable in gnome or not. > > > > Maybe we can add an Orca feature to synthesize a slight mouse movement > > periodically when it's not speaking. This would trick gnome-shell (or > > whatever) into thinking we're ready to see another message. I am mostly > > -- but not entirely -- joking. > > > > --joanie > > > > On Thu, 2023-07-27 at 18:52 +0100, Harley Richardson wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > This works great so far, but there's one instance where it seems to fall > > > over. Not sure if this is a gnome thing or an Orca thing, but it's been > > > around for ages and I thought the rewrite would fix it. I get a decent > > > amount of messages from a few things. WhatsAppDesktop, telega, Discord > > > and other stuff, all of which are effected. After a while of > > > notifications puttering along, there will be times when they just don't > > > read. I'll hear a sound and nothing else. But if I press any key, > > > control, shift, you name it, after a few seconds I'll hear the > > > notification being read as usual. It doesn't matter what app I press the > > > key in either. I know that mpv basically stops orca from doing anything, > > > and it did the same thing even then. Is there something the gnome > > > notification daemon is doing that Orca should be looking out for? It > > > happens more often than not when I haven't been pressing keys for a bit > > > due to me listening to music, then when I press a key it's like > > > something triggers and the notification reads after a bit. It won't read > > > after it's gone away off the screen and I press a key though, so to me > > > it's suggestive of events not being fired. > > > > > > Harley > > > > > > On 26/07/2023 21:39, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: > > > > Hey all. > > > > > > > > Inspired by Arkadiusz's observation that arrowing in notifications > > > > doesn't work in master, thanks to the new key handling bugs, I basically > > > > completely rewrote Orca's notification messages feature. From the commit > > > > message: > > > > > > > > * Keep the last, previous, and list bindings as-is > > > > * Add a binding for next > > > > * When the show-list command is used, present them in a Gtk dialog > > > > * Add and present relative timestamps with each message > > > > * Add ability to clear all notifications with the dialog > > > > * Create dedicated keybinding group for the new notification presenter > > > > (Yes, we should and will create more dedicated keybinding groups.) > > > > * Present notifications immediately rather than queueing their event > > > > up. This will hopefully help solve the flaky bug where Orca doesn't > > > > present the full (or any) text from the notification. That bug is > > > > due to the notification popup being destroyed before we have its > > > > content. > > > > > > > > This should solve the broken arrowing because arrowing is no longer a > > > > special Orca thing that should be a command because you're in a "mode." > > > > If you bind and use the command to show the list, an honest-to-goodness > > > > dialog with a real list whose navigation is provided by Gtk3 will > > > > appear. Problem solved. And yes, this arguably does fall under the > > > > heading of "well that escalated quickly." *grins* Jokes aside, the fewer > > > > off-screen special modes we have, the less likely we'll get bitten by > > > > key handling bugs. And the less likely sighted users unfamiliar with > > > > Orca will accidentally find themselves in a mode they cannot see and > > > > don't know what to do. > > > > > > > > I'm afraid this change will likely break any keybindings you had for > > > > this feature. On a happy note, the notification message commands have a > > > > dedicated group in the keybindings list. This means that you can arrow > > > > to the default group and collapse it, arrow to the unbound group and > > > > collapse it, etc. soon you'll find the notifications presenter group. > > > > > > > > As indicated above, I'll be doing more of these groups so we don't have > > > > "default" keybinding soup. > > > > > > > > Anyhoo, please give it a spin and let me know what you think. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > --joanie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > orca mailing list > > > > orca@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > https://www.freelists.org/list/orca > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html > > > _______________________________________________ > > > orca mailing list > > > orca@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > https://www.freelists.org/list/orca > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ > > > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > orca mailing list > > orca@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > https://www.freelists.org/list/orca > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ > > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html > _______________________________________________ > orca mailing list > orca@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://www.freelists.org/list/orca > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html > _______________________________________________ orca mailing list orca@xxxxxxxxxxxxx https://www.freelists.org/list/orca Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list