Brent: We discuss this in the document at http://www.loc.gov/nls/niso/drm.htm On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Luke Davis wrote: > For streaming you would use something dynamic such as SSH, not PGP. > However I see your point. > > > On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Brent Harding wrote: > > > Wow, so how would the public/private key encryption work to get the books > > rolling? I suppose, using something like pgp, I could generate you a key if > > I were the publisher and send it to you on a disk, and encrypt all the > > content I want you to have with it. But this involves a manual process for > > every individual. Thus for example, pgp shoutcast can't exist, in the > > current protocols since only one key can decrypt any one data stream. And > > also, some how you have to turn the encrypted content in to audio that can > > be transmitted through such things if you wanted a pay to hear audio stream > > for whatever it be. I was thinking of the idea once, but winamp would choke > > on the encrypted mp3 stream and refuse to transmit it, although in linux to > > decode you could theoretically do something like > > lynx --source http://aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd:port | pgp -d > > and enter your password for your private key. > > At 11:46 AM 11/19/01 -0500, you wrote: > > >Martin, your message is apt and to the point. And, your instinct for a > > >FREE software digital talking book player is also on the mark. Now is a > > >very, very good time for such a player to come into existence. As someone > > >who continues to be very involved in the development of the NISO/DAISY dtb > > >standard, I'd like to pose a challenge to the programmers among us: > > > > > >Please give us a dtb player or two which supports the new NISO/DAISY > > >standards--mostly. I say"mostly" because it is not the end of the world if > > >you can't immediately support MPEG. Please know that the NISO/DAISY > > >standards people are keenly aware of the problems posed by specifying > > >MPEG. Regretably, ogg-vorbis was not judged ready for prime time yet--so > > >if someone wants to work on that, that would also be helpful, because we > > >truly need a GPL compression package that provides quality files that will > > >compete well with MPEG. > > > > > >Let me say why we need a GPL dtb player right now. I am seriously > > >concerned that agencies will impose some kind of encryption technologies > > >which they will not want to describe to GPL programmers. That would be > > >most unfortunate. Far better, imho, for this community to show that a GPL > > >player can really do the job of accessing (both text and audio) dtbs well. > > >Far better to show that public/private key encryption may just be adequate > > >enough. > > > > > >The pendulum has swung away from tight controls, at least among the > > >libraries that serve our communities today. Frankly, the earlier version > > >of the NISO standard was a bit stricter about copyright enforcement--what > > >the publishers like to call "Digital Rights Management." I think even our > > >earlier, stricter model was still smarter than what we've been seeing from > > >commercial ebook publishers. The commercial publishers are putting the > > >onus on the user and are killing industry prospects by doing so. The > > >earlier recommendations are still online at: > > > > > > http://www.loc.gov/nls/niso/drm.htm > > > > > >In summary, this earlier document expects that some, but certainly not > > >all, titles produced as digital talking books will need to be restricted > > >to qualified recipients in order to maintain long standing programs of > > >free access to books--as with NLS here in the U.S. This would also apply > > >to U.S. agencies such as RFB&D. It would, in fact, be the copyright > > >management scheme which would distinguish titles produced in the NISO > > >standard as qualified titles under the so-called "Chafee Amendement" to > > >U.S. Copyright law. Chafee is a good thing, and we should not lose it. > > > > > >The DMCA is another matter entirely. The NISO thinking was to put the > > >emphasis on catching willful violaters, not on needlessly encumbering > > >honest users. My expectation is that public/private key can do this very > > >well--and can do it in a platform independ matter. > > > > > >Of course there's a chicken and egg aspect to all of this. Who would build > > >a player when there's nothing to play? How would one even test it? Yet, I > > >would think that this community would not want to leave the definitions of > > >what's possible to agencies who are far more steeped in proprietary > > >software than is probably good for the community at large. So, let me > > >simply offer this: I will find some NISO/DAISY content for you to test a > > >player with if you are building a GPL player and need something to work > > >with. Just write me privately. > > > > > >Lastly, let me say just a little more about how much content is actually > > >out there. There is virtually none in the newest version of the standard > > >simply because it's still not 100% nailed down. The NISO folks have until > > >December 17 to vote on the specifications that were submitted to them just > > >a few weeks ago. You should know that we truly do not expect any problems > > >with this voting, and we do expect a lovely Christmas pressent shortly > > >after December 17. > > > > > >There is a fair amount of content available to earlier incarnations of the > > >digital talking book specifications as produced by DAISY. In particular, > > >it may be important for players to support the new NISO/DAISY > > >specifications at: > > > > > > http://www.loc.gov/nls/niso > > > > > >as well as the older, DAISY 2.0 specifications which can be found at: > > > > > > http://www.daisy.org > > > > > >In particular, RFB&D has been quietly testing textbooks in several K-12 > > >schools for blind children around the U.S. They are hoping to begin > > >offering about 3,000 titles encoded in DAISY 2.0 to all their clients > > >sometime during 2002. Also, the talking book programs at CNIB and RNIB > > >(U.K.) are expecting to launch programs for their clients in the spring of > > >2002 with approximately2,500 titles in each. So, as you can see, content > > >does already exist in the older DAISY 2.0 specification, though it is not > > >yet generally available. > > > > > >Last point on the encryption issues. We expect that whatever copyright > > >based encryption/decryption is involved needs to be nationally based. In > > >other words, the laws that authorize free programs for blind (and > > >otherwise print disabled) people differ country to country. So, any > > >support for a particular solution needs to be modular in order to handle > > >such national differences. > > > > > >I want to end on a more cheerful point. Even mainstream publishers are > > >beginning to realize that encumbering users is a bad way to promote the > > >value of electronic publishing. Please take a look at this website: > > > > > > http://www.openanebook.org > > > > > >It is intended to be a place for publishers of all kinds to offer their > > >free content and their free tools. So, if you know of any, please offer > > >them up there. And, if you have influence with any blindness agency or > > >ebook publishers, please get them to join DAISY and/or OEBF. We need > > >broader participation in both places in order to realize a vision of > > >epublishing which creates accessible titles that are comfortable and fun > > >to use while still paying authors and editors for the value they add. > > > > > > > > > On > > >Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Martin G. McCormick wrote: > > > > > >> I certainly hope that players for DTB's will be available > > >> for Linux when the technology actually begins to bear fruit. > > >> > > >> This truly is a wonderful next step in the Talking Book > > >> program. Just think of the logistical problems of moving and > > >> caring for physical materials that this solves. There will still > > >> need to be traditional Talking Books for many years to come, but > > >> I think this is the future and it may get to a point where there > > >> won't need to be as many physical recordings produced as there > > >> are now. > > >> > > >> The one thing I see as holding things up is the one > > >> artificial technical issue and that is DRM or Digital Rights > > >> Management. > > >> > > >> How is that going to be accomplished? The standards > > >> document simply says that digital rights management will be > > >> supported but probably wisely does not prescribe exactly what > > >> sort of mechanism will be used. > > >> > > >> Hopefully, being eligible to receive traditional Talking > > >> Books and Braille materials will enable one to also receive any > > >> DTB's they are entitled to receive. > > >> > > >> In the main-stream consumer world, digital rights > > >> management has not been doing too well. Some systems are hacked > > >> almost before they are released. Other systems tend to do the > > >> opposite and malfunction in ways their developers never thought > > >> of to cause honest users of the technology to be denied service. > > >> > > >> Some rights management systems have even gained the > > >> distinction of suffering from both maladies. The crackers > > >> de fang the protection and the honest users discover that the > > >> software thinks they are thieves because of something their > > >> equipment or they accidentally did. > > >> > > >> This issue, not technology, has held up everything from > > >> digital audio tape a decade or so ago to present-day high-definition > > >> television systems. > > >> > > >> Linux and FreeBSD should actually be good test beds for > > >> this technology because it is based on open-source models and any > > >> hanky panky mechanisms such as back doors or scripting > > >> applications are a little easier to police than they are in > > >> proprietary operating systems. > > >> > > >> Martin McCormick WB5AGZ Stillwater, OK > > >> OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Network Operations Group > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > > >> Blinux-list@redhat.com > > >> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > >> > > > > > >-- > > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director > > > Technology Research and Development > > > Governmental Relations Group > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > > > > > >Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > > > > > >Chair, Accessibility SIG > > >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > > >http://www.openebook.org > > > > > >Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper, > > >Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp > > > > > >Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther > > >King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at > > >http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp > > > > > >Learn how to make accessible software at > > >http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > >Blinux-list@redhat.com > > >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > -- Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper, Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp Learn how to make accessible software at http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp