On Sat, 2012-08-11 at 19:14 +0800, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: > On 11 Aug 2012 18:53, "Ralf Mardorf" <ralf.mardorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Sat, 2012-08-11 at 09:45 +0200, Jelle van der Waa wrote: > > > Have you ever tried to report your problems with PA and your soundcard > > > to upstream? > > > > Have you ever really read what people wrote and why we are against it? > > > > Regards, > > Ralf > > > And you're dissatisfied that the Envy chipset isn't supported, even though > the project's stated goal is desktop users (translation stereo only). Personally I don't care for the Envy24 chip, since my audio card for sure has a much better hardware mixer. It's just that Envy24 cards are widespread, since those are cheap and they usually are better than onboard devices and many are stereo only. My Envy24 cards are for MIDI only. On non-audio user mailing lists there are often requests regarding to "no sound". In the end "most of the times" it's pulseaudio that breaks audio for desktop users. Btw. do consumer nowadays not usually need 5.1 instead of stereo? > You may disagree with that goal and their definition, but the traditional > solution to that is to get coding. Today still most coders are interested that they don't break something. The coder we are talking about claims that the ALSA drivers are borked and similar strange things, when users report issues. IMO it's the task of this coder to rewrite the drivers, when those won't work with his software, since the drivers do work without his software. > Complaining doesn't change anyone's minds, especially when you use > hyperbole (most users etc) So most computer users do not use other operating systems? There are several reasons for this, pulseaudio isn't the only reason, but it has got much weight. To shut up won't change the situation. Btw. I'm not complaining only, I fix all my Linux installs and I help other people to fix their installs. But when I say using a dummy package will solve issues, than it's also not ok. Why don't ship distros with dummy packages for pulseaudio? I never noticed that a dummy package did break something, but even if it should break something, at least there are more advantages for those who can't use pulseaudio, due to their hardware. Today users have the choice to use DEs that don't need pulseaudio, but if we would be quiet, perhaps one DE after the other would make pulseaudio a dependency. Noise is part of how communities work. Silence would cause stagnation. Words about "most people" of cause belong to my broken English, if you like we could continue in German. I already said, that marginalized groups are important. However, I'll read what ever you'll write + I'll reflect deeply about your words, but I guess I've nothing to add to this topic at the moment myself. Regards, Ralf
