Re: [users@httpd] Can this be Done?

NetSuporte <netsuporte@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> · Fri, 06 May 2005 10:19:09 -0300

Robert Zagarello wrote:

Phillip,

I sympathize with your network issues.  All I can
offer is some general guidelines to assist in

debugging where the real problem(s) are occurring. 

Sometimes network problems are far from

straightforward and yes can be a pain in the arse.

What I suggest is for you to try to simplify your
access issues from outside your network using
small-step test scenarios (and I apologize if this
sounds way too general, not to sound like you haven't
tried doing this already, but just in case you haven't
tried this thinking - often it is easier to help
someone than to help yourself).  Sometimes all it
takes is to hear something truly irrelevant to help
with a problem, and that is what is best about forums.

Thanks Robert,

I understand this very well as I can usually help a client step through 

a problem better than I can help myself.

I think it is because we inherently have too much knowledge about what 

we are trying to do, kinda a forest for the trees issue.

For example:

1. Get your internet access working with SSH before
trying to get it to work with your web service.

I can sftp and ssh (telnet) to the server from the local net. ( it is 

the only way I can go from one computer to the other)

I need to find away to login to a remote site and ssh back to the 

server, right now I only have the three computers on my local lan for 

testing. I am assuming this means SSH is working.

2. Another is to try accessing using your IP address
only when testing, because this removes the name
translation dependency.

I try both each time I change something.

3.  It has been my experience that browser access via
web service introduces issues not normally involved
with network access.  For example, if you haven't
rebooted or restarted your web browser and your
address on your web server has changed, your browser
may "remember" it in cache and not accept the new IP,
leading one to believe it is a network issue when in
fact it is the stupid browser (IE does this for
example).

Good idea, as I am having access tested by a friend outside my network 

and he leaves his computer on 24/7 and more than likely does not exit 

his browser. I'll check this out. On the local side I have done this and 

I can see the website by the name or IP, BTW I have assigned a special 

port to avoid the ISP blocking access ie port 8222 instead of port 80.

4.  Remember that your web server needs to find you on
the remote side and this is what hosts and perhaps
resolv.conf on your web server is good for, and that
different OSs may handle resolv.conf differently (I
haven't had the need to mess with resolv.conf, for
example, in NetBSD, because I use DHCP).

I use DHCP only for the windows machines that are used by the rest of 

the users.

For my Linux machines I have assigned IP addresses outside the 

router/DHCP range due to application dependencies that need the same IP 

to function properly.

5.  Remember that your web server, if on a private
LAN, is NATted through your router, and that you have
to tell different pieces of network access software
the right IP for a given name to work.  For example,
I've had to put my router's IP in my web server's
hosts file because otherwise it will translate itself
to its private LAN address when using its FQDN and
won't go to DNS to find it (this doesn't mean it will
work that way for another OS, for example).

I did not try to put the router's IP in the servers host file because 

when I type the "route" command it router IP is the default.

Is this not the same idea?

If I think of anything else that may be completely
irrelevant that may trigger a thought to help solve a
problem I'll send again.

Good luck...  BZAG
===============================

--- NetSuporte <netsuporte@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

For the novice the message it sends for DDNS

configuration is use TZO or 

don't configure DDNS here.

My objective is to have complete control, for now I

am trying both the 

DynDNS and the TZO  (free versions)  until I figure

this out and it is 

working. So far Apache2 is running fine my problem

is access to my web 

server from outside my local net.

Perhaps this is not where to go for my DNS issues. I

am very grateful 

for any help I can get though ( I tend to over

complicate things).

As it goes I am using Debian 3.1 and I am finding

that a few things 

have changed since I read about DNS configuration,

as an example the 

instructions step-by-step I have to setup a DNS

server are not valid 

with Debian as they decided to split the

"named.conf" file into several 

small conf files and move the "named" stuff all into

/etc/bind. It makes 

since but for a beginner jumping from file to file

to understand 

examples is a pain in the ass.

Bottom line it is still not working my California

office cannot find my 

website in Brazil.

One document I read says use local IP in the

/etc/host for my system, 

another says use the "assigned" IP from my ISP which

is displayed on the 

router interface and via the DynDNS/TZO control

panels. Also I have 

conflicting examples of what to put in "resolv.conf"

and how to assign 

my IP's or a single IP to 1) my system  2) the web

host/server  3) the 

DNS server 4) virtual hosts

Once I sort this out I should have enough knowledge

to back out of 

DynDNS and TZO as they only add additional "Domain"

issues
the domain I want is not used anywhere and I don't

like the "free" 

choices I am given. I don't want to work "in the

box" or "outside the 

box" I want to work as if there is "no box" after

all who said I have to 

pay to use the Internet, it is bad enough I need to

pay to access it, 

however I offset this cost by using VOIP to

eliminate by phone bills, 

but that is another forum all together.

Please keep the advice and suggestions coming.

thanks too all who respond ( even the other old
folks ;-)

-Philip

Stephen Cook wrote:

this just means that you CAN use their service,

but you can still set 

up port forwarding and such manually and use

DynDNS.org or no-ip.com 

or whatever. the built-in option is just simpler

to set up (not by a 

whole lot either), at the price of actually having

to pay.

NetSuporte wrote:

Robert,

I also used the free service of DynDNS

the model I have is ( network everywhere )

LynkSys

cable/DSL router Model Number:NR041

This is on the DDNS configuration screen inside

the router:

DDNS (Dynamic DNS) allows assigning a domain name

to a dynamic WAN IP 

address,
making it easier to host Web, FTP, or other

servers.

The Dynamic DNS service is powered by TZO.com.

To use the Dynamic DNS Services, please sign up

for a free 30 day 

trial

<http://www.tzo.com/MainPageDownload/30days_free.html>

To order the TZO service, click here

<http://www.tzo.com/order.html>

  To manage your domain name and related

services: 

Controlpanel.tzo.com

<http://Controlpanel.tzo.com>

TZO Password Key:  -philip

Robert Zagarello wrote:

NetSuporte,

I use a D-Link DI-624 that doesn't complain. 

Who

wants to charge you?  I did not use DynDNS's
subscription $$$, only their free service.  It

means

you have to use one of their domain names.

I'd like to know the Linksys model you are using

so I

can tell people to avoid it !  Thanks.  BZAG
=================================

--- NetSuporte <netsuporte@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

Thanks Robert

Right off I ran into a snag my Lynksys router
insists I use TZO.COM
and they charge a fee after 30 days.

That really sucks as I discovered this after

signing

on with DYNDNS.ORG
Where they assigned me a domain of

homelinux.com A redirected host 

name of quecaixa.webhop.net with
the redirected URL of www.quecaixa.com.br:8222
cloaked - yes
cloak = www.quecaixa.com.br

Not sure what the cloaked stuff is about

exactly but

with or with out I still
cannot get to my server outside my own net.

So I will try to enable DMZ and see if it

helps.

Philip

Robert Zagarello wrote:

Here are some guidelines for running a private

web

server on your home network for internet
accessibility.  I think I've included

everything. This is actually 

what I am using myself (am running
NetBSD) and it is working:

1. Use Dynamic DNS and a 3rd party DDNS

service

provider like dyndns.org.  There should be an

entry

for DDNS in your home cable/DSL router for

this.     

You

don't need an internet registered domain and

DNS

address - the DDNS service will do it.  You

don't

need

a static IP address from your ISP for your

router.

2. Install and run the SSH daemon for remote

admin

to

your web server.

3. On remote Windows PCs use PuTTY and PuTTY's

command

line utilities for up/downloading files from

your

web

server.

4.  On your cable/DSL home router put an entry

for

the

remote IP addresses in your firewall,

specifying

the

host and SSH ports, and route them to your web

server.

5.  Put an entry in your router's firewall for

the

router itself, as in the previous step, to

test

internet accessibility from your home network.

If

you

put an entry for your web server's host name

in a

home

network PC's hosts file, you will access the

web

server without going out to the internet.  If

you

use

the web server's FQDN (full host plus domain

name,

fully qualified domain name), your home PC

will

actually request name translation from your

ISP's

DNS,

which is your router, and then direct your

request

to

your router's WAN side port, effectively

testing

for

internet accessibility.

6. In your web server's host file put your

DDNS

address and FQDN (full host plus domain name,

fully

qualified domain name) you got from your DDNS

service

provider.  Don't put in the web server's

private

LAN

address.  Note the IP address may change

because

you

are using DDNS - but it doesn't change that

frequently

- so you may want to run a script that checks

it

daily.

7.  You may want to put a simple non-dotted
up-to-15-character name for your ISP's DNS to

test

name resolution from your web server when you

have

problems using nslookup for example (you have

to

specify the server using nslookup because the

web

server is on your home network).

8.  You can also put a simple non-dotted
up-to-15-character name (say, just the host

name

only

of the FQDN) for the web server in your home

PC's

hosts file to permit local testing of your web

server.

9.  In rc.conf (I am running NetBSD) on the

web

server,   put in the DDNS FQDN as the hostname

and

similarly its domain part for the domainname.

There are entries above for the IP address

that are

made manually so these have to be checked

periodically

if changed by your broadband ISP.  (This does

not

include the DDNS entry in the router which

will

update

your DDNS service entry automatically).

BZAG
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