I suspect that Mark and I are talking about two different things. A and P are discounted first class, and Z is discounted business class. What I'm talking about is not sold as a first or business class fare; it *can't* be, since the corporate travel agents (or individual travelers who book the space and are reimbursed on expense account) are prohibited by their company travel policy from booking any F or C fare, discount or otherwise. What I'm referring to is a scheme whereby the airline advertises that full-fare coach (Y) passengers will get automatic space-available upgrades to F (on two-class aircraft) or C (on three-class aircraft). Unlike A, P, or Z, this is not a published fare with rules, but simply an internal marketing program. I have done this domestically on UA, NW, CO, old FL, old QQ, and probably a couple of others, and internationally on AC and LH. In each case the ticket was booked in plain Y, and at check-in I got an F (C/J in the case of AC and LH) boarding pass. I don't have the boarding pass stubs handy to check, but I think on AC it was XJ or YJ (by the way, A and P on AC are discount economy fares). In some cases (NW, CO, QQ, FL) I got an F seat assignment on the phone at the time of booking (or the travel agent got it for me); in other cases I had to wait until check-in to get it. And once on NW and once on UA I was, in effect, downgraded back to actual Y due to being bumped by actual full-rev (or otherwise higher priority) F pax. In any case I've never booked in A or P for these. I have booked in Z, which is my usual fare class to Europe on UA, and that is positive space in the C cabin, and the fare is more than full-fare Y but less than C. -- Michael C. Berch mcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Sep 5, 2006, at 3:31 PM, Mark Gerrard wrote: > This is incorrect. > > YUP fares are usually booked in either A or P class. If you do a > search on any of the major travel booking engines for a business > class fare, it will be the lowest fare available, which will > usually be anywhere from $700 to $1200 depending on destination. > CO are I think the only major carrier that do not do YUP fares, > they just have straight Z fares which are a discounted business class. > > Michael C. Berch wrote: >> On most (major) airlines it's simply the unadorned Y fare, but >> you have to check with the airline to make sure it applies to >> your specific flight. "Y-UP" is not in common use; what usually >> happens is that you book in Y, and through the reservations desk >> or the web site you get a seat assignment in F. Then when you >> check in, you get a real F boarding pass (which is often a >> different color or style, and gets perks like a lounge, early >> boarding, etc.). Sometimes the boarding pass is coded with a >> class like NF, FN, ZF, FZ, or F2. Depends by airline. >> >>