David, If you have issues with my posts, then talk to moderator of this list. You and I have limited saying on the 'what's approved and what's not'. Poor white trash is an American idiom eh? I am sorry, during my 15 years of my USA life I never heard of the term..(Do you think?). This tells you right there about your perception of me.. since I am not an American, I must have never heard the term. whatever ! -----Original Message----- From: David MR [mailto:damiross3@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 10:39 PM To: The Airline List; Bahadir Acuner Subject: RE: Aline Registration Rule goes into effect today.. "poor white trash" was sarcasm, not the state of my finances. It's an American idiom. The topic is AIRLINES, not flight instruction I am an AOPA advocate, too. Yes, I do know about the rule. No, I don't go posting flight instruction topics to an airline list unless it's about airline pilot instruction. =>-----Original Message----- =>From: The Airline List [mailto:AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of =>Bahadir Acuner =>Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 22:24 =>To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =>Subject: Re: Aline Registration Rule goes into effect today.. => => =>David, =>You are off topic yourself. I happen to be a flight instructor, =>an aircraft =>owner, a pilot and an advocate of AOPA. I spent close to 30 hrs since Oct. =>20th with AOPA to fight this stupid rule. => =>I am also in the industry, and happen to know no one is happy about this. =>But, then again, you judge me, as you usually do. I bet my entire =>wealth on =>the fact that you even haven't read the legislation, the docket and the =>reaction of the thousands of people on FAA's website.. => =>Why am I not surprised.. => =>As a rule of thumb, I don't reply to your replies to me. This =>time I am even =>keeping it within the context. => =>Also, FYI, I don't even know the moderator and he also put me on =>moderation =>before. I have been poor before many times, I am born white but I =>never been =>a trash :) => =>Have a great holidays.. => =>BAHA =>Fan of flying => =>-----Original Message----- =>From: David MR [mailto:damiross3@xxxxxxxxxxx] =>Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 10:09 PM =>To: The Airline List; Bahadir Acuner =>Subject: RE: Aline Registration Rule goes into effect today.. => =>You know something? I post something on-topic (i.e. related to =>the airline =>industry) and I get put into the moderated status. You post something =>off-topic constantly and you don't get moderated. Is it because I'm just =>poor white trash and the you and the moderator aren't? => => =>=>-----Original Message----- =>=>From: The Airline List [mailto:AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of =>=>Bahadir Acuner =>=>Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 21:27 =>=>To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =>=>Subject: Aline Registration Rule goes into effect today.. =>=> =>=> =>=>Alien training/citizenship validation rule hits everyone today =>=>AOPA continues advocacy to lessen impact =>=>Starting today, any non-U.S. citizen who is beginning training for a new =>=>certificate or rating in any size powered aircraft must be =>cleared by the =>=>Transportation Security Administration, including those who have =>=>previously =>=>held pilot certificates. This alien flight training rule applies even to =>=>resident aliens with a "green card." =>=> =>=>And the rule also applies to U.S. citizens as well. That's =>because flight =>=>instructors and flight schools are required to check a student's =>=>citizenship =>=>before providing training for any new certificate or rating. =>=> =>=>"We expect that the TSA will soon announce some changes that AOPA =>=>advocated =>=>that will make this rule less intrusive," said Andy Cebula, AOPA =>=>senior vice =>=>president of Government and Technical Affairs. "We also pushed =>=>very hard for =>=>TSA to treat resident aliens the same as citizens, but TSA =>=>refuses to budge =>=>on that issue." =>=> =>=>Despite the fact that resident aliens have been investigated and =>=>fingerprinted by U.S. immigration services, TSA doesn't have =>=>confidence that =>=>the process has weeded out potential terrorists. =>=> =>=>"Neither do some members of Congress," said Cebula. "We =>=>understand that many =>=>AOPA members are resident aliens and have been loyal to this country for =>=>years. But Congress and the Department of Homeland Security are adamant =>=>about treating all non-U.S. citizens the same way when it comes =>to flight =>=>training." =>=> =>=>This lack of confidence can be attributed, in part, to the fiasco that =>=>ensued when six months after the terrorist attacks on the World Trade =>=>Center, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) sent =>student visa =>=>approval forms for terrorists Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi to the =>=>Florida flight school where they had trained. The INS was =>reorganized and =>=>absorbed into the Department of Homeland Security and renamed U.S. =>=>Citizenship and Immigration Services in 2003. =>=> =>=>For flight instructors, the rule means that they are required =>to check the =>=>citizenship of any student applying for training for a new =>certificate or =>=>rating. AOPA had successfully lobbied to get recurrent training and =>=>proficiency checks excluded from the rule. =>=> =>=>AOPA was also successful in obtaining an exemption to the rule for U.S. =>=>citizens that allows instructors to make a simple logbook entry =>=>to show that =>=>they have checked citizenship, rather than having to maintain =>=>copies of the =>=>student's proof-of-citizenship papers for five years. =>=> =>=>Flight instructors and flight schools training non-U.S. citizens =>=>have to be =>=>approved by the TSA. Training providers can register online =>with the TSA. =>=>All flight instructors must also complete initial security awareness =>=>training by January 18, 2005, regardless whether they are =>training foreign =>=>nationals or not. =>=> =>=>Non-U.S. citizens taking any type of flight training in a powered =>=>aircraft, =>=>regardless of size, (gliders, balloons, and airships are =>exempt) must get =>=>TSA approval and pay a $130 application fee. They also have to =>=>submit their =>=>fingerprints and a photo to TSA. Flight training providers have =>to verify =>=>with TSA that the student has been approved for training. =>=> =>=>Complete details of who the TSA's Alien Flight Training / Citizenship =>=>Validation Rule applies to and how to comply with the rule are =>=>available in =>=>AOPA's online guide. =>=>-- =>=>No virus found in this incoming message. =>=>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. =>=>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 =>=> =>-- =>No virus found in this outgoing message. =>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. =>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 =>-- =>No virus found in this incoming message. =>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. =>Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004 => -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004