Speaking of LY's LAX-JFK-TLV service, I remember at some point LY had a U.S. affiliate, North American Airlines, which did the U.S. feeder/aggregation service for LY's transatlantic flights, to avoid some of the foreign-airlines traffic rights issues, like LAX-JFK which would have been cabotage/Eighth Freedom (not Fifth Freedom). Is this still the case? And I believe LY had some sort of ownership interest in North American (not a majority which would have been legally prohibited). As for Fifth Freedom flights, I've taken at least two -- El Al from JFK to LHR, in 1968, my first trip abroad with my parents, and Singapore from SFO-(HNL)-HKG in 1989. (HNL was a technical stop only, no O/D traffic. It was eliminated when SQ brought the 744s on to replace 743s.) Other flights might have been intra-Europe, but I'd have to consult my log. -- Michael C. Berch mcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Sep 7, 2004, at 1:37 PM, Travel Pages wrote: > El Al actually ferried travel agents for free JFK-LAX. The point, as > noted below, was that these rights of course only impact paying > customers. Similarly these runs can be used by a carrier to ferry > people/equipment between points where they have a presence. > > Dennis W Zeuch <DZTOPS@xxxxxxx> wrote:mgreenwood@xxxxxxxxx writes: > >> I thought an airline couldn't even carry staff if they didn't have >> traffic >> rights? >> > > No problem-was a regular deal on everyone (Maybe it had to be a 'free' > pass > without service charge or some other minor regulation) I think the > rules only > applied to paying passengers not freebies or 'free cargo-service > freight, > catering materials, mechanical items etc'' Those empty legs where > revenue freight > and psgrs couldnt be carried went out full of service cargo and other > airline > staff. > Dennis > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. >