I am surprised that these kind of messages make it to the list.. :) But, since it is allowed let me take a stab at it.. John, all these hostile things mentioned by you were committed by individuals, and their followers who were serving US interests at one time. Saddam and Rumsfeld were best buddies when they shook hands, in the war against Iran. Before that Iran was US' best friend when they were ruled by another oppressing regime, the Reza Pahlavi.. Current president's father went to Pakistan and praised the things that Osama and followers did.. And pushing radical Islam and supporting it was the policy of United States in early 80s against Soviet supplied communism. The same is valid also about the leader of Panama, Noriega, who was the CIA's man when George Bush Sr. was the director of CIA. Let's not talk about the US policy in Philippines in the late 70s and early 80s supporting the Marcos regime. I would really like to try to see GWB's "We are bringing freedom" point in Iraq. But no matter how hard I try, I come to conclusion that the same mistake was committed by English after WWI, is being committed by USA and British troops. There will be no political freedom in Iraq after the war. I cannot believe that spending 100s of billion dollars to kill people on both sides, is justified with the same rhetoric. Iraq had nothing to do with Sept. 11, it had nothing to do with all the terrorist crimes committed by Al Queda and followers. Current administration didn't ever listen, and it is still not listening to the people of "The Rest of the World". Even the public in the countries that support the war is against it. To keep this thing in the subject, this is going to hurt the airline industry big time. And as a person who came to United States of America from a foreign country, let me say that I chose to live in the USA because I believe this country is built on great values, where people work very hard (if you ask me even harder than necessary), they are being treated equal, and you can make a decent living by hard work. I do love the life in USA, I do love the private enterprise, and the fact that I am free to write this e-mail. (Well, not so much after Asscroft took the DoJ and every freaking e-mail is being monitored). Two weeks ago, a naval intelligence officer stopped by a friend's house and questioned him why he went to Friday Harbor ( a holiday island at the border of US and Canada) from Seattle, a trip that he made 6 months ago. Right now TSA has the right to take pilots licenses from anyone that they feel like they are a threat to the society. People are being put on jail, no questions asked, through racial profiling, for stupid reasons such as a traffic ticket. Ask the family of Syrian born American in Seattle who was locked up with no lawyers, how they feel about it. The point is, both domestically, and internationally Sept. 11 is being used as an excuse, to attack people inside and outside of US. Current US administration is causing a major problem in the world and inside the US that in return will hurt people who live in this country and people who live outside and love this country. Thank you.. BAHA ACUNER - CFI,CFII,MEI www.bahadiracuner.com www.acuwings.com -----Original Message----- From: The Airline List [mailto:AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of John Kelly Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:10 AM To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Why Some Hate the U.S. Let's see: 1) About 18 months ago, four unarmed civilian airliners were hijacked, two skyscrapers destroyed, and a U. S. government building damaged. 3000+ innocent civilians were killed by terrorists. 2) In 1998, two U. S. Embassies (Kenya and Tanzania) were bombed by terrorists. 270+ innocent civilians killed. 3) In December 1988, a U. S. airliner, Pan Am's Clipper 103, was destroyed in mid-air with 240+ inncoent civilians murdered. 4) In 1986, a U. S. airliner TWA Boeing 727, suffered severe damage due to a bomb planted by Middle Eastern terrorists. 4) In 1985, the Achille Lauro cruise liner is hijacked and an innocent passenger (an American)is executed. 5) Also in 1985, TWA's 847 was hijacked and an innocent passenger (an American) was executed. 6) In 1969, three western airliners were hijacked and blown up or severly damaged in the Syrian desert. One of these was an American airliner. Oh, the "Air Force hot shot flying a plane into a ski lift with 20 Europeans on it, no one will apologize" story isn't completely true. A Marine Corps EA-6B Prowler hit the cable in the Italian Alps and, tragically, the skiers were killed. All four crew members on the EA-6B were court-martialed, disciplined, dismissed from the service, and the pilot served a prison term. Restitution was made to the families of those killed in this accident. No folks, the U. S. owes nobody an apology when it seeks justice and is one of a few countries that takes great pains to follow the Laws Of Armed Conlict to the letter. And, with the exception of Great Britain, please tell me what other nation, in the middle of a war, very carefully attacks legitimate military targets and then concurrently feeds the population of that country? The United States of America is not perfect and this country does make mistakes. But, there are still millions of folks who want to get a visa, come to America, and try to attain the American dream. They must see something good that America has to offer for people that their home nation doesn't offer to them. Best Wishes to the list, JCK ---- >From: Jim Fuoco <jfuoco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Reply-To: The Airline List <AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Jim >Fuoco <jfuoco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: Why Some Hate the U.S. >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:31:51 -0500 > >I fully understand these sentiments. > >It seems like we are the first to criticize other countries and the first >to put our nose into everyone else's business. Yet when we make mistakes, >like a missile gone astray, or an Air Force hot shot flying a plane into a >ski lift with 20 Europeans on it, no one will apologize. > >Our arrogance and self-serving policies are unfortunately creating more >and more anti-American sentiments around the world. Do we really want the >rest of the world to hate us? > > > >On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Gerard M Foley wrote: > > > A friend this morning remarked that a niece had died aboard Egyptair >990. > > This reminded me of what I have noted before on the list. The Egyptair > > representative on the joint investigation of this crash filed a >dissenting > > opinion. He specified several cases of problems with B767 horizontal > > stabilizers. I searched the net for any response to this dissent, and >what > > I found was a simple reassertion that the NTSB had devised a coherent > > reasonable account of the events leading up to the crash. I cannot find >any > > refutation of the specific assertions in the dissenting opinion. As >far as > > I can see, the U.S. investigators just said "We know what happened, so >shut > > up. We'll agree not to issue any finding, we'll just leak it and say >that > > we don't want to upset Egypt for political reasons." > > > > Another civil airline matter relevant to the attitude towards the U.S. > > relates to the USS Vincennes shooting down an Iranian Airbus. As far >as I > > know the U.S. has never paid compensation to the survivors of the >victims on > > the grounds that the money might wind up with the Iranian government. > > > > I suspect there are other examples of arrogance relating to air traffic >that > > I am unaware of. > > > > People on the Eclipse list have been upset by the appendage I have felt > > moved to put on my e-mail signature. In fact I am a US Citizen, have >never > > lived in Germany, but I feel as powerless as Good Germans did in the >1930's. > > My personal opposition to the Nazi Party predated January 30,1933. >Perhaps > > I should put quotation marks around the appendage to my signature. If >no > > one ever said it, I am sure there were millions who said nearly the same > > thing. > > > > I'm not trying to be provocative, I just want people to think. > > > > Gerry > > "I am a good German. I did not vote for the Nazis. I don't care > > who they send to the camps or what they do there as long as > > they don't send me." > > > > http://foley.ultinet.net/~gerry/africar/africa.html > > http://home.columbus.rr.com/gfoley > > http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/pollock/263/egypt/egypt.html > > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail