My two cents. I flew both constantly for many years. CP clearly had the poorer equipment. While their 737s were workhorses and (most of them) were in excellent operating condition, they were uncomfortable for anything longer than an hour or two. When it came to YYZ-YVR jaunts, I preferred AC. And any of my YUL/YOW->YVR jaunts (against the wind), I ALWAYS chose AC, as Mike noted, the risk of getting a non-ER equipped 737-200 was high. I also had a favour for AC's energizer DC9s. CP's DC-10s were unfortunate. I used to get a few doing YYZ->YVR. Great planes from a historical perspective. But AC was flying 763's and A340s and even 330s right at the end on the same routes. I never flew CP overseas. Pacific Western, it's financial predecessor rocked in comparison from my memory. Some of the same spirit as Westjet. When CP decided to go head to head with AC on the YYZ-YUL routes, I quite enjoyed my regular 767-300 service. We used to call it the "fluffy egg flight" referring to the food being served. Yes, a hot breakfast on a 50 minute flight, in 1995 no less! When it came to res systems, AC's was superior... or the user's knew it better. Me and my travel agents had far too many run-in's with the CP SABRE system they used for reservations. Their code-share setup with AA was pathetic, and generated numerous painful incidents at CP ticketing offices. CP's lounges were mostly superior over ACs. In YVR at least, they've kept the CP one at the expense of the AC one. But the decision point that would sway me in the direction of CP was all of their staff. They really did care about doing a good job. Given the lousy hours, lousy equipment, lousy pay and lousy systems, they shined above it all. On some flights, you'd swear you were on a Wardair DC-10 flight from Toronto to Barbados in 1978 or a Pacific Western milkrun flight from Toronto to Thunder Bay, on to Brandon and then Regina. As for the Far-East, CP 'owned' the market. About two days after the anti-trust rules were dropped (which lead to the AC takeover of CP), AC offered to buy CP's Asian routes. CP declined as they knew they were their crown jewels. I believe AC had a flight to HKG and Osaka and that was about it. CP served HKG, Bejing, Taipei?, Shanghai? Seoul? and several other places with their 744, DC10 and 763 fleet. Matthew On Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 06:06 PM, Mike Gammon wrote: > I've flown both to Asia, and across Canada, and Canadian to South > America. > > It's really 6 of one, half dozen of the other. AC had nicer seats on > "Executive First" compared to CP's business class. I've had nice and > grumpy > F/As on both. I've had on-time and delays on both. I've had great > trips > and miserable trips on both, though my most miserable was on return > from > Japan on CP. Delay in Vancouver due to a late aircraft, then > substitution > for a non-ER 737-200 which required a tech stop in Winnipeg which > meant a 5 > am arrival at Montreal, instead of 8 pm, which meant busting curfew at > Dorval, which meant a divert to Miserabelle. > > To Asia I flew YYZ-NRT non-stop on a DC10-30 in business. Horrible > business > class seats. Very long ride, 14 hours. I've done the same trip the > other > way on AC, in an A340. Guess which I preferred? To be fair, the > A340s came > late in the game. AC's contemporaries to the DC10s on int'l routes > would be > the 747s and L1011s (at least until the late '80s). > > Things improved on CP when they picked up the 767-300s and later the > 747-400s but I never flew on a CP 747-400 (only on AC's combis, as > well as > Varig and BA). > > I can tell you one thing though: on transcon flights, CP was flying > 737s > non-stop YUL-YVR well into the Airbus era. Now, THAT was a miserable > flight, over five and a half hours in economy. Plus, if the wind gods > weren't just right, or an ER took sick and had to be replaced with a > regular > 737-200, a technical stop in Winnipeg. > > In those days I would avoid CP like the plague on YUL-YVR. For a > while, > even their "business class" was merely an unoccupied center seat > whereas AC > had a full business class seat. > > Those are my reminiscences. If I had to give a preference, I'd give a > slight edge to AC for better equipment. CP often gave me the > impression of > being on a shoestring (like the 737s on transcons). > > Mike Gammon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael A. Burris" <yul@prodigy.net> > To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 7:36 PM > Subject: Canadian Airlines International > > >> AIRLINE: >> >> I'm looking for some candid opinions from members of >> this list who've flown Canadian Airlines International >> when it was up and running. Was the service (in >> particular to the Far-East) better than on Air Canada? >> >> Were their lounges at the airport nicer than Air >> Canada? Were the FA's nicer than at Air Canada? >> What about the planes themselves? >> >> I'm writing a story on Air Canada and need some >> background info on Canadian. In addition, can anyone >> guess how many employees over all lost their jobs >> because of the merger? What ever happened to Ken >> Benson, former CAI, CEO? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Michael A. Burris >> Cambridge, Massachusetts >> >