Wouldn't the fix postings have manually shown the conflict? Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant McKenzie" <grantmckenzie@optushome.com.au> To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 4:33 AM Subject: Re: NYTimes.com Article: Doomed Planes Tried to Avoid Collison > Hi Al, > > They should still use strips as a written record of all the instructions > given to the acft but I'm not sure what format they take. Over here, > procedural sectors had bays corresponding to mandatory reporting points > with a strip for each acft due to report at that point. The level and > estimate was used to alert the controller to conflictions. We now use > electronic strips and I'm not sure how they work as far as conflict > alert is concerned on a radar sector. There is an electronic conflict > alert system which flashes the acft paints a different colour and sounds > an aural alarm but I believe this was deactivated or not working in this > case. > > Grant > SYD > QF > > allan9 wrote: > > > Grant, > > Don't they still post flight progress strips and the fix posting should show > > two aircraft at the same altitude. Or are you saying they don't use and/or > > check strips in a radar sector over there? > > > > Al > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Grant McKenzie" <grantmckenzie@optushome.com.au> > > To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> > > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 10:29 PM > > Subject: Re: NYTimes.com Article: Doomed Planes Tried to Avoid Collison > > > > > > > >>TCAS doesn't communicate with ground ATC. It's essentially a last line > >>of defence type of device which goes into action when planes start > >>getting seriously close. If a TCAS RA is issued the acft are already in > >>conflict by the ATC definition of the term. > >> > >>And yes, procedural control (which uses flight progress strips) is > >>designed to highlight potential conflicts although I think this conflict > >>occurred in a radar sector. > >> > >>Grant > >>SYD > >>QF > >> > >>allan9 wrote: > >> > >> > >>>John, > >>>Unless they have made some radical improvements since I retired TCAS > >>> > > doesn't > > > >>>communicate with the controllers. Don't they use flight progress > >>> > > strips? > > > >>>It would seem as though the strip postings would have shown a potential > >>>conflict before the controler even worked the aircraft. DoDo just > >>> > > doesn't > > > >>>happen. > >>> > >>>Al > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "John Kurtzke" <kurtzke@up.edu> > >>>To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> > >>>Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 1:19 PM > >>>Subject: Re: NYTimes.com Article: Doomed Planes Tried to Avoid Collison > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Does TCAS communicate with ATC? If not, this crash makes it look like it > >>>>should. What is the sense of a system figuring out what the two planes > >>>>should do, tell each other, and not tell ATC automatically. > >>>> > >>>>john > >>>> > >>>>On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, Grant McKenzie wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Hi Scotty, > >>>>> > >>>>>Long time no natter. > >>>>> > >>>>>It's sounding more and more like the Swiss ATC guy screwed up. Or, more > >>>>>accurately, the system screwed up and the poor sod up the sharp end was > >>>>>left wearing it. A mate of mine who was over in Geneva for a ATC > >>>>>conference a couple of years back and was taken to the ATC simulator > >>>>>which also takes a live feed from Eurocontrol, including the sector in > >>>>>question and he said it is a hellishly complicated piece of airspace. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>Grant > >>>>>SYD > >>>>>QF >